Matthew Vines Reformation Project trainee: male on male sex romps okay as long as they are “Christ honoring”

821c1c522ff0cdac6dc1efc25fee1707Interesting point raised by Stasis Online about how followers of Matthew Vines’  gay christian Reformation Project regurgitate silly religious context memes as justification for homosexuality. Basically, they contend that same sex relationships are okay as long as they are “loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring”. Please don’t laugh, they are serious. Cultural context is very important to the reformers.  This group of reformers all born in within the last 50 years or so have concluded that the preceding 2,000 years of church doctrines, leaders who personally walked with or were called by Christ (Paul, Peter, Jude, etc) and even social norms ALL got it wrong.  Even Peter, Paul, Jude and the apostolic fathers who shed their blood for the church actually lived in the culture they wrote about, the RPers say they got it wrong. As one wrote on a Charisma comment section: “One has only to do the work and learn for themselves to understand cultural context and original language to see the Bible was never speaking about loving, monogamous Christ honoring same sex relationships.”

The revelation of arrogance and ignorance of the arrogance encased in such words are stunning. But such are the enlightened beliefs of the reformers.

As Stasis pointed out there’s some serious intellectual thuggery going on with Matthew Vines and his Reformation Project. How can you assert cultural context is important to the textual revelation but ignore the implications of your own textual gymnastics? We decided to give the cultural context theory a whirl and see if its legitimacy is adaptable to the other sexual prohibitions located in close proximity to the homosexual prohibition.

The assertion is that homosexuality is exempted because in context a “loving, monogamous Christ-honoring” man on man sex romp is acceptable. The Reformation Project’s thesis reads like this:
Sex between two men or two women is okay as long as its loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring. But does it work with the other perversions? Let’s see if they work.

Sex with your mother is okay as long as its loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring.
Sex with animals is okay as long as its loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring.
Sex with your blood brother or sister is okay as long as its loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring.
Sex with your grandchildren is okay as long as its loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring.
Sex with your neighbor’s wife is okay as long as its loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring.

All of these sexual relationships are banned along with homosexual relationships in the same passage and provides no distinctions between any of them. There are no astericks on the homosexual prohibition (vs22). If the context is really about loving, monogamous and Christ-honoring relationship why doesn’t it work with all the other prohibitions?

Can someone inform the Reformers that what they are trying to reform cant be reformed because the original author wont allow it?  Even scarier?:  Matthew Vines may be the new Charles Manson of the gay religious world. His followers seem ready to kill the truth on command for him.


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23 Responses to Matthew Vines Reformation Project trainee: male on male sex romps okay as long as they are “Christ honoring”

  1. Jeff says:

    A living committed relationship is not a sex romp. That is a one night stand that many do but totally different. My commitment and love for my partner is no different than ones love and commitment to their spouse. These beliefs are what creates laws by legislators who use these beliefs that continually demonize the gay community and tells them they are less and deserve less as tax passing US citizens. Creating inequality that no one can deny and is especially prevent in the south and mid west.

    • gcmwatch says:

      this isnt about man made laws and your perception of sex. This is about God’s word and HIS commands. One day you and the person youre having sex with will die. After you die, you will stand before God and give account for your choices. Please be aware no man and no law will factor into the judgment of the True and Living God. Only his word. You have that now. Choosing to ignore it for your own selfish and temporary satisfaction will be yours to face.

      • Jeff says:

        GCM yes it is about rights and laws. I know I will stand before our maker and am not ashamed of being a gay man. And my love is just not sex as neither anyone’s love for their spouse. For your beliefs have set up a legal system governed by conservative legislators that use your beliefs (the conservative Christian church) and ideas to create laws against gay men and lesbians. This is fact and one can not escape the fact of this going on in the US. You have a right to believe as you do and you do not get any gruff from me. But when laws are passed that stops equality happening to all US citizens then you have a fight from me and millions of others. Believe as you may and I will do the same just do not use your beliefs against me and denying me the same rights you enjoy daily.

        • gcmwatch says:

          Oh, you mean the rights and privileges you enjoy daily as a white gay male whose skin color guarantees you an advantage over those of us whom your foreparents enslaved?

          • lesha says:

            lol excellent question, Pastor Foster. Wonder when it will be truthfully answered? Folk be claiming they want equality, when what they really want is supremacy.

            • gcmwatch says:

              lesha, yeah we’re still waiting on an answer or a denial on that. The offspring of the oppressors claiming they are now victims. Really?

  2. J Doll says:

    As society slides more rapidly towards perdition it seems that the battle has been lost. Education, the media, our government and worst of all the church has enthusiastically jumped on the gay marriage, gay lifestyle and inclusion bandwagon.

    We who understand that the gay lifestyle is most assuredly not sanctioned by the Lord Jesus Christ must redouble our efforts to pray for our country and pray against the powers of hell that seek to drag millions of naive and impressionable young people into this destructive lifestyle.

    This past Friday I learned that a former co-workers 17 yr old son announced he was gay. Now that there are few obstacles in his way to pursue this lifestyle there will most likely be no turning back unless the Lord would intervene on his behalf. It made me terribly sad to think about his future and the emptiness he will endure, not to mention the eternal ramifications of his decision.

    As for Mr. Vines and his ministry, it is one thing to be personally deceived and quite another thing to go out of your way to ensnare others into your web of deceit, rebellion and perversion of the Holy Gospels to justify your sin.

    God have mercy on our nation.

  3. David Foreman says:

    “the preceding 2,000 years of church doctrines, leaders who personally walked with or were called by Christ (Paul, Peter, Jude, etc) and even social norms ALL got it wrong.”
    Hmmm. You mean like they ALL got it wrong concerning racism and sexism. Nah. I’m sure they wouldn’t do THAT again.

  4. Clayton King says:

    What a bunch of garbage… it’s amazing to me that people like you jump from sex (of any sort!) straight to bestiality, incest and such. I’m a 50-year-old-gay man. I’ve known I was gay for 45 of those years. And I can honestly say I have never once had a thought, much less an urge, to have sex with an animal or a sibling/parent. The irony is that you are the one who makes this leap – not gay people.

    • gcmwatch says:

      How very convenient of you to miss the point Clayton King. The point wasnt nor has it ever been whether you (or any other homosexual) personally thought about committing any of the abominations. The point is the equality of those abominations from a contextual standpoint. There’s no irony and no leap, only a reality that all sins are equal in God’s eyes. If you attempt to sanitize yours with clever sounding logic, that same logic can pollute it.

  5. David Foreman says:

    The vast undeniable history of oppression, violence and murder has always been “It’s not me. It’s God.” It’s always justified by “God’s Word.”
    You may actually BELIEVE you are on God’s side, as did the Pharisees, but like the Pharisees, you are surely opposing the very God for whom you claim to speak.

    • gcmwatch says:

      In this case, God’s word is true. Using it for unjust oppression is wrong, but just because it was done by others doesnt mean that all prohibitions are wrong. Homosexuality has never been right nor will it ever be. However, its never been a sin to be a woman or a white man. Just because you are the one in the wrong doesnt mean what is declared is “opppression”. There is a way out and unfortunately instead of you taking the way out (repentance) you choose to mislabel it oppression.

      • Clayton King says:

        I guess that’s the crux of the matter… I am definitely a sinner, as are 99.99% of the people on this planet. We simply disagree about whether my being homosexual and acting on it is a sin or not. You think it is; I don’t. We each have our reasons for our beliefs. Done.

        • gcmwatch says:

          If you know you are a sinner, why STAY a sinner when you can repent and be changed by Christ? Thats why he died so that sinners can be freed from the bondage of sin. What you think doesnt matter, only what God says. But if you want to risk doing it based on your own finite understanding and not on God’s eternal knowledge and wisdom, just know theres a heavy price to pay for your choices. The wages of sin is death.

          • Tim A says:

            gcmwatch — YOU are a sinner, and will remain a sinner your entire life… just like the rest of us. There is NOT a day that passes where YOU do not sin. You STAY a sinner. You have no power to change that. Yet you charge homosexuals to flee their “sin”, when you do not flee your own…. isn’t that hypocritical? Even Christ calls you a hypocrite for focusing on other people’s sins when you should be focused on your own.

            • gcmwatch says:

              Tim A, a sinner by biblical definition is one who practices sin as a way of life. I used to practice sin as a way of life. Day in and day out I sinned with no conviction, sorrow or desire to change what did or said. That’s what a sinner does. But after you are regenerated, you dont practice sin. It doesnt mean you will never sin again, it means that if you do, you repent and turn away from it. Read 1 John 2:1 and 1:9 Ive repented of my sins and I repent of my sins when Im wrong. Thats what real Christians do. Real Christians DO NOT continue in sin, ignoring God’s grace. Read Romans 6:1 In case you didnt look closely, this post is about gay christians not unregenerated homosexuals. There’s a big difference. Read 1 Cor 5. Now, at what point will you tell Matthew Vines and his gaggle of followers to acknowledge their sins and repent? Why do you exempt them from what all Christians (if they are true Christians) must do when confronted with their own sins?

      • “God’s Word” has been quoted to prove that a white woman marrying a black man is, has been, and will continue to be “sin.”
        The Bible is NOT the end-all in knowing God, or knowing what is or isn’t a sin.
        There are an estimated 40,000 “Christian” denominations, most of whom, while disagreeing with each other “just believe the Bible.” That should give fundies pause.
        Of course, it doesn’t.
        Little does.
        This is YOUR page, and thus, you will have (as you should on your page) the last word.
        So thanks for posting opposing comments.

        • gcmwatch says:

          Familiar lines of protest Mr Foreman, but they are dead on arrival. Truth is still truth no matter who misuses it and how many times they do it. And your logic doesnt play out. Cars have been used to kill people, but millions of people still drive them, dont they?

  6. J Doll says:

    The primary and main point of repenting and turning from “any” sin is that we are to present ourselves a “living sacrifice” to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    Any attempt to shoe horn scripture to justify sin should not be the goal. Jesus died for our sins. The purpose of his agony on the cross was not to promote “equality and inclusion” or to give us a green light to push the limits of His grace. It was to point to the devastating affect of sin. Life is so short. Eternity is forever. Our focus should be on eternal life and if that means putting aside our lusts and desires for His sake then so be it. Lust for money, power, control, drugs, alcohol, food and yes sex is a short list.

  7. Lafe says:

    To Those Who Protest That Homosexuality is OK with God:

    Understand that the Spirit of God will not always strive with mankind but God will at some point in your
    chosen lifestyle, allow you to continue with your freewill as to maintaining your sinful lifestyle and a point will come that your conscience will be seared as with a hot iron and you will not feel the wooings of the Holy Spirit to convict you of sin.
    Why? God has simply allowed you to go to the conclusion of your free will choice of remaining in your sin…and your sin of choice is homosexual sin.
    Repent while you still can before God removes the
    Holy Spirit from his convicting work of sin in your life. How will you know of this removal? Simple. You will sin and sin and have no remorse or regret or desire to change…a reprobate mind.
    So my friend, if you continue to stick your thumb in the eye of God, do not be surprised when God pulls it out and says, enough is enough!
    His longsuffering was and is a means by which you can repent and receive his grace gift of Jesus the Christ for the remission of your sins.
    Choose you this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!

    • J Doll says:

      I am seeing firsthand the ramifications of what you say Lafe. My best friend many years ago turned his back on God and threw himself completely into the gay lifestyle. He claims that he is saved and OK with God, but I peek into his life now and then on Facebook and am shocked at the hostility he expresses towards those that would profess Godly opinions.

      He is not the man I knew 20 years ago. He is becoming a gay activist of sorts and ridicules anyone not agreeing with him. We no longer have contact with each other. I refuse to get into a back and forth with him. My prayer for him is that at some point his eyes and heart will again be open to a sanctified relationship with Jesus and that he not lobby for gay rights/marriage/etc. It makes me very sad.

  8. Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil.

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