Comments on: What do pigs have to do with homosexuality? http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:09:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: lesha http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality/comment-page-1#comment-7617 lesha Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:32:55 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=2839#comment-7617 Juanita Mathis said : "You are not going to be able to say much about the foundations of Christianity without highlighting the lives of Abraham and Jacob. It just seems to me if the part of the law that I mentioned in Leviticus was so important to God that God would have Himself kept Jacob out of his Holy purpose as you all are always suggesting that gay people should be left out. I mean after all during those times of Jacob God was striking people down dead who offended him, consider the fellow who reached out and touched the Ark of the Covenant as it was carried down the street." WHAt????? Which Bible are you reading Juanita? Abraham and Jacob first appeared in Genesis......long long long time BEFORE Leviticus, and long BEFORE the giving of the Ten Commandments. Uzzah was struck down for touching the Ark of the Covenant in the times of DAVID (not Jacob), Jacob was long long long dead.... Please try and stick to the Word. Juanita Mathis said : “You are not going to be able to say much about the foundations of Christianity without highlighting the lives of Abraham and Jacob. It just seems to me if the part of the law that I mentioned in Leviticus was so important to God that God would have Himself kept Jacob out of his Holy purpose as you all are always suggesting that gay people should be left out. I mean after all during those times of Jacob God was striking people down dead who offended him, consider the fellow who reached out and touched the Ark of the Covenant as it was carried down the street.”

WHAt????? Which Bible are you reading Juanita? Abraham and Jacob first appeared in Genesis……long long long time BEFORE Leviticus, and long BEFORE the giving of the Ten Commandments.

Uzzah was struck down for touching the Ark of the Covenant in the times of DAVID (not Jacob), Jacob was long long long dead….

Please try and stick to the Word.

]]> By: juanita mathis http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality/comment-page-1#comment-7390 juanita mathis Tue, 21 Jul 2009 01:19:00 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=2839#comment-7390 gcmwathch I appreciate your answer and it sounds good in theory but the bottom line is it simply is not as simple as you and cassandra think. Let's just take the 10 commandments when you say the only answer is to just obey. You have to be operating within your own culture, experience, background, etc. in order to obey what you believe is written. For example one commandment states that "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." if I were to casually ask 100 Christians what this means-what is this commandment telling them to do, without them doing any research as to what it meant to the Jewish culture in their time, you may receive 50 different answers to this question. What does it really mean to Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy? I know what many of us think that means in our Western Christian culture, but what did it mean for people to obey this commandment 2500 years ago in the Middle East? And I realize you may say-but now we are not under the law-but what I am attempting to do is to illustrate to you it is not simply that easy to say "just obey the law of God because the law is righteous." The point I was making about Jacob and Abraham is that they are not just people who we may or may not look to as examples of right living but they are major, major characters in our Faith story who have been allowed either by us or by God, to remain as founding figures in our belief. You are not going to be able to say much about the foundations of Christianity without highlighting the lives of Abraham and Jacob. It just seems to me if the part of the law that I mentioned in Leviticus was so important to God that God would have Himself kept Jacob out of his Holy purpose as you all are always suggesting that gay people should be left out. I mean after all during those times of Jacob God was striking people down dead who offended him, consider the fellow who reached out and touched the Ark of the Covenant as it was carried down the street. I think your comment about God placing His law in our hearts is on point, although we would probably disagree on how that works. When I accepted my call into ministry 25 years ago as a woman, I almost became discouraged because of the naysayers interpretation of scripture as to what a woman's place was in the Kingdom and work of God. I am so glad I listened to the unction that was in my heart and not people's interpretation of what the bible meant for me. In doing so I found that there were many interpretations to that "women must kept silent in the church," scripture. Many times in order to LIVE my brother you must follow your heart otherwise you will die and the religious world want even notice. <strong>GCMW: Juanita, satan has seduced you that's clear from your own rebellious, misguided words. You've been deceived and rebellious for 25 years and its time to submit to God. Youre not his minister, because satan has control of your life. The Lord know those who belong to him, because they depart from iniquity in order to please him. Repent and leave that homosexual relationship you have so much pride in. God is not pleased with it when women dishonor the bodies he created for his glory. </strong> gcmwathch I appreciate your answer and it sounds good in theory but the bottom line is it simply is not as simple as you and cassandra think. Let’s just take the 10 commandments when you say the only answer is to just obey. You have to be operating within your own culture, experience, background, etc. in order to obey what you believe is written. For example one commandment states that “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.” if I were to casually ask 100 Christians what this means-what is this commandment telling them to do, without them doing any research as to what it meant to the Jewish culture in their time, you may receive 50 different answers to this question. What does it really mean to Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy? I know what many of us think that means in our Western Christian culture, but what did it mean for people to obey this commandment 2500 years ago in the Middle East?

And I realize you may say-but now we are not under the law-but what I am attempting to do is to illustrate to you it is not simply that easy to say “just obey the law of God because the law is righteous.” The point I was making about Jacob and Abraham is that they are not just people who we may or may not look to as examples of right living but they are major, major characters in our Faith story who have been allowed either by us or by God, to remain as founding figures in our belief. You are not going to be able to say much about the foundations of Christianity without highlighting the lives of Abraham and Jacob. It just seems to me if the part of the law that I mentioned in Leviticus was so important to God that God would have Himself kept Jacob out of his Holy purpose as you all are always suggesting that gay people should be left out. I mean after all during those times of Jacob God was striking people down dead who offended him, consider the fellow who reached out and touched the Ark of the Covenant as it was carried down the street.

I think your comment about God placing His law in our hearts is on point, although we would probably disagree on how that works. When I accepted my call into ministry 25 years ago as a woman, I almost became discouraged because of the naysayers interpretation of scripture as to what a woman’s place was in the Kingdom and work of God. I am so glad I listened to the unction that was in my heart and not people’s interpretation of what the bible meant for me. In doing so I found that there were many interpretations to that “women must kept silent in the church,” scripture. Many times in order to LIVE my brother you must follow your heart otherwise you will die and the religious world want even notice.

GCMW: Juanita, satan has seduced you that’s clear from your own rebellious, misguided words. You’ve been deceived and rebellious for 25 years and its time to submit to God. Youre not his minister, because satan has control of your life. The Lord know those who belong to him, because they depart from iniquity in order to please him. Repent and leave that homosexual relationship you have so much pride in. God is not pleased with it when women dishonor the bodies he created for his glory.

]]> By: cassandra http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality/comment-page-1#comment-7336 cassandra Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:59:16 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=2839#comment-7336 Wow!! That was an excellent response to Juanita Mathis' question. Bottom line is this...obey. It's just that simple ... obey. Keep spreading the truth...it will make you free. Oh...I enjoyed the grammar lesson as well...LOL Wow!! That was an excellent response to Juanita Mathis’ question. Bottom line is this…obey. It’s just that simple … obey. Keep spreading the truth…it will make you free.

Oh…I enjoyed the grammar lesson as well…LOL

]]> By: gcmwatch http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality/comment-page-1#comment-7333 gcmwatch Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:15:16 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=2839#comment-7333 Juanita, your question is legitimate so let's give it a legitimate response. We should work from this start point expressed by David in Psalm 19: The law of the Lord is perfect,reviving the soul. The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,making wise the simple. 8The precepts of the Lord are right,giving joy to the heart. The commands of the Lord are radiant,giving light to the eyes. 9The fear of the Lord is pure,enduring forever. The ordinances of the Lord are sure and altogether righteous. As you mentioned, God (and his laws) are immutable. In contrast people change constantly. Thus it is always for us to follow and uphold that which changes not. Neither people nor their actions can change the law of God. There is no evidence anywhere in scripture which tells us God changed his laws because of the failings of people. What he changed was the <i>venue</i> of his law. Instead of writing them on stone tablets, he wrote them on the fleshly tablets of our hearts. Heb 8:10 Thus, his law stands as perfect. You mentioned Jacob and Abraham. Indeed both committed sins. The question is do we use Jacob and Abraham's moral failings as a pattern for our lives or do we use God's perfect law? Though the bible records their failings, there is <i>no approval</i> of their failings. And neither is there any approval for our sins so I think the answer is clear. We must acknowledge that we have sinned. This is where you and the gay christian movement err greatly. You refuse to acknowledge that the law of the Lord is perfect and that it contains no approval for your sin. Secondly, you repeat a common misconception that God "using" an individual to accomplish his will is somehow an equivalent to righteousness. Not so. Jesus blew the lid off this perception when he explained that many would come to him in the judgment and list their accomplishments which they did "in his name". Yet, he says (almost coldly) "I never knew you." Its akin to stealing someone's credit card and using it. Yes, it will get you what you want (in that person's name) but it doesnt change the fact that you have no authorization (based on relationship)to do so. You are a thief and a robber. Further, most use the "donkey principle" when justifying the sins of others. But they miss one important point. After God used the donkey, he went back to being a donkey. The same ole jackass he was before. Is that really what we want to compare ourselves to? In short,nothing needs to be reevaluated other than the own wickedness in our hearts that despise God's law. Stop holding up people (and their sins) as our example and hold up God's law as our example. It is perfect, converting the soul. Juanita, your question is legitimate so let’s give it a legitimate response.

We should work from this start point expressed by David in Psalm 19:
The law of the Lord is perfect,reviving the soul.
The statutes of the Lord are trustworthy,making wise the simple.
8The precepts of the Lord are right,giving joy to the heart.
The commands of the Lord are radiant,giving light to the eyes.
9The fear of the Lord is pure,enduring forever.
The ordinances of the Lord are sure and altogether righteous.

As you mentioned, God (and his laws) are immutable. In contrast people change constantly. Thus it is always for us to follow and uphold that which changes not.

Neither people nor their actions can change the law of God. There is no evidence anywhere in scripture which tells us God changed his laws because of the failings of people. What he changed was the venue of his law. Instead of writing them on stone tablets, he wrote them on the fleshly tablets of our hearts. Heb 8:10 Thus, his law stands as perfect.

You mentioned Jacob and Abraham. Indeed both committed sins. The question is do we use Jacob and Abraham’s moral failings as a pattern for our lives or do we use God’s perfect law? Though the bible records their failings, there is no approval of their failings. And neither is there any approval for our sins so I think the answer is clear.

We must acknowledge that we have sinned. This is where you and the gay christian movement err greatly. You refuse to acknowledge that the law of the Lord is perfect and that it contains no approval for your sin.

Secondly, you repeat a common misconception that God “using” an individual to accomplish his will is somehow an equivalent to righteousness. Not so.

Jesus blew the lid off this perception when he explained that many would come to him in the judgment and list their accomplishments which they did “in his name”. Yet, he says (almost coldly) “I never knew you.” Its akin to stealing someone’s credit card and using it. Yes, it will get you what you want (in that person’s name) but it doesnt change the fact that you have no authorization (based on relationship)to do so. You are a thief and a robber.

Further, most use the “donkey principle” when justifying the sins of others. But they miss one important point. After God used the donkey, he went back to being a donkey. The same ole jackass he was before. Is that really what we want to compare ourselves to?

In short,nothing needs to be reevaluated other than the own wickedness in our hearts that despise God’s law. Stop holding up people (and their sins) as our example and hold up God’s law as our example. It is perfect, converting the soul.

]]> By: juanita mathis http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality/comment-page-1#comment-7332 juanita mathis Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:24:01 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=2839#comment-7332 In this article it is noted that in the Old Testament "all sexual conduct laws are moral law and therefore universal." I wonder why in Lev 18:6-13 the scripture forbids men from having sex with their sister and/or half sister while in Gen 20:12 we see Abraham admitting that his wife was actually his biological half sister. Also Lev 18:18 says as long as a man's wife is alive he should not marry one of her sisters. It always baffles me how the man Jacob, who seemed to have dishonored many of the "universal laws" we hold so dear (marrying sisters, having sex with other women while being married, ie. Leah, Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah), yet God used him to create such a legacy in our God story that will last throughout eternity. I realize that these characters appeared before the written Jewish law but we also preach and teach the theology that God is immutable and can never change. I assure you it is the "study and dividing" of scripture that has caused many of us to come to the understanding that many scripture that was once believed to be so absolute must be rethought and reevaluated in order for Christianity to be truthful and not hypocritical. I pray that we will have the courage to do that for the sake of our Faith that it might not die out in this post-modern age. In this article it is noted that in the Old Testament “all sexual conduct laws are moral law and therefore universal.” I wonder why in Lev 18:6-13 the scripture forbids men from having sex with their sister and/or half sister while in Gen 20:12 we see Abraham admitting that his wife was actually his biological half sister. Also Lev 18:18 says as long as a man’s wife is alive he should not marry one of her sisters. It always baffles me how the man Jacob, who seemed to have dishonored many of the “universal laws” we hold so dear (marrying sisters, having sex with other women while being married, ie. Leah, Rachel, Bilhah and Zilpah), yet God used him to create such a legacy in our God story that will last throughout eternity. I realize that these characters appeared before the written Jewish law but we also preach and teach the theology that God is immutable and can never change.
I assure you it is the “study and dividing” of scripture that has caused many of us to come to the understanding that many scripture that was once believed to be so absolute must be rethought and reevaluated in order for Christianity to be truthful and not hypocritical.
I pray that we will have the courage to do that for the sake of our Faith that it might not die out in this post-modern age.

]]> By: Paul N http://www.gcmwatch.com/2839/what-do-pigs-have-to-do-with-homosexuality/comment-page-1#comment-7329 Paul N Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:19:34 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=2839#comment-7329 I think Galatians 5 sums it up actually! Galatians 5 1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 7Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 12I would they were even cut off which trouble you. 13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. I think Galatians 5 sums it up actually!

Galatians 5
1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
10I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
11And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
12I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

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