Comments on: COGIC PB downplays sexual abuse cases http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:15:54 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.3 hourly 1 By: WGS http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-12875 WGS Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:25:41 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-12875 Grace and peace to all. Please allow me to say that ANY allegation is one too many! I love the COGIC and I serve the LORD faithfully. I also serve faithfully in MANY areas of this great organization, and I've been one to cry LOUDLY AGAINST sexual misconduct on ANY level of our organization. We do have a VERY serious problem when the system is BROKEN, no one wants to take the time NECESSARY to correct it, and the victims voices are COMPLETELY silenced! I STRONGLY recommend that this be TOPIC #1 in the General Assembly in April, and that REAL answers be given so that we can begin a REAL healing process for the victims, EXPOSE the deeds of those who remain unrepentant, still violating women, men and children, and have them hauled into a court of LAW for FULL PROSECUTION! Besides the legal suits, the COGIC should be JUST as concerned for the VICTIMS as they seem to be for their pockets! I LOVE GOD'S PEOPLE! I LOVE RIGHTEOUSNESS! I LOVE THE COGIC! BUT WRONG IS WRONG! WRONG CAN'T BE RIGHT, AND DOESN'T WANT TO BE! FATHER, in JESUS' name, please may EVERY VICTIM WHOLE, every TRULY repentant perpetrator restored, and unrepentant violator to FULL JUSTICE! Amen. A VERY CONCERNED COGIC MINISTER! (PASTOR) Grace and peace to all.

Please allow me to say that ANY allegation is one too many!
I love the COGIC and I serve the LORD faithfully. I also serve faithfully in MANY areas of this great organization, and I’ve been one to cry LOUDLY AGAINST sexual misconduct on ANY level of our organization. We do have a VERY serious problem when the system is BROKEN, no one wants to take the time NECESSARY to correct it, and the victims voices are COMPLETELY silenced! I STRONGLY recommend that this be TOPIC #1 in the General Assembly in April, and that REAL answers be given so that we can begin a REAL healing process for the victims, EXPOSE the deeds of those who remain unrepentant, still violating women, men and children, and have them hauled into a court of LAW for FULL PROSECUTION!

Besides the legal suits, the COGIC should be JUST as concerned for the VICTIMS as they seem to be for their pockets!

I LOVE GOD’S PEOPLE! I LOVE RIGHTEOUSNESS! I LOVE THE COGIC!
BUT WRONG IS WRONG! WRONG CAN’T BE RIGHT, AND DOESN’T WANT TO BE!
FATHER, in JESUS’ name, please may EVERY VICTIM WHOLE, every TRULY repentant perpetrator restored, and unrepentant violator to FULL JUSTICE! Amen.

A VERY CONCERNED COGIC MINISTER! (PASTOR)

]]> By: gcmwatch http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-11754 gcmwatch Fri, 25 Dec 2009 22:31:41 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-11754 Dave it would interesting to hear what you think are the agendas of both sides. Be as specific as you can. Dave it would interesting to hear what you think are the agendas of both sides. Be as specific as you can.

]]> By: Dave http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-11750 Dave Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:02:19 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-11750 Allegations of abuse or countenancing abuse should be evaluated case by case. I won't take sides because on one hand you have the corporate reps, and on the other purported advocates. Their is sincerity on both sides, and both have agendas. I would, however, like to hear more from actual victims. Also, I'd like to understand the profile of some of the advocates. Allegations of abuse or countenancing abuse should be evaluated case by case.

I won’t take sides because on one hand you have the corporate reps, and on the other purported advocates. Their is sincerity on both sides, and both have agendas.

I would, however, like to hear more from actual victims. Also, I’d like to understand the profile of some of the advocates.

]]> By: Carol Gilleran Davis http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10919 Carol Gilleran Davis Wed, 18 Nov 2009 02:17:02 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10919 You know - I never said I was not at fault hon - but to clearly read the fact that there was a case opened with Children and Families regarding the sexual abuse of his daughter - by him - that it was most definately found to be true - and you tell me that you do not believe that this is sexual abuse? I am 100% responsible for my actions not just 50% I had never gone to a COGIC till I went with him. I met him in the USVI - when I met him I was terribly confused by things that happened in my life ie. I buried my husband - when our daughter was 5 mo and 22 days - he was 21 1 mo and 29 days - he was injured in the Army - long story short - I knew I needed to come closer to God and our relationship - was in part at first because I needed a better understanding - to get this straight - he did not leave us - I left MN with my children - against his wishes. Yes I am aware I am guilty of living in sin with him - I am sideways so to speak with the WHOLE picture because he is in the pulprit preaching - he is marrying - uniting people - he is baptising people - he is claiming he is saved - ? I was new to the church - I was trying to learn the bylaws - trying to learn about God - his, Gods expectations - I learned alot from this church don't misunderstand me please - I still hold close alot of the teachings I learned from this church but -I was really confused due to my home life and the contradictions - of the things I was learning in church. I went to church there faithfully for the first five yrs I was there - but it became much to conflicting - the whole situation was just not right - when I tried to speak to the pastor about this - I felt completely shuned. I was not going to him to cause problems - I really needed him to be my pastor - many of the things I learned while I was there I still to this day - hold close - sermon titles - I still quote today. I learned alot from this church - nothing can take that away - because I was supposedly married to a Sr Elder - I was considered a Missionary - went to the Elders and Ministers wives meetings - yet stayed as unrelated as possible - I once had the pastors wife ask me - why was I no longer attending these meetings I explained to her - very briefly that one day - she would understand - but I simply could NOT go into detail. I feel I was convicted - I knew within myself - it was not right - I feared what may happen to my children due to the consequences - of their fathers actions- I began to put money aside so when I did leave - I could provide for my children. From the time I was convicted - I no longer shared a bed with him - I owned the home we were in and daily asked him to help me resolve what was not right - I even asked him - my childrens father to please pray with us as a family - that we could make things right before the presence of the Lord - I will never forget his response - he laughed - he has since apologized and said he wishes he would have done as I asked - we met in the USVI - I had never gone to a COGIC - till we had been together for more then 2 yrs and I was pregnant with our first child. You can twist this however you want to to make it right for you..., truth is - he is a Sr Elder in the COGIC - he has 7 kids from 5 different women- which I was not aware of till much later and - he was only married to two of the mothers - AND HE IS STILL IN - the COGIC he will not be one that has to provide a thorough back ground check - not an employee- but does have direct contact with children - CHILDREN- and vulnerable women for counseling. You know – I never said I was not at fault hon – but to clearly read the fact that there was a case opened with Children and Families regarding the sexual abuse of his daughter – by him – that it was most definately found to be true – and you tell me that you do not believe that this is sexual abuse? I am 100% responsible for my actions not just 50% I had never gone to a COGIC till I went with him. I met him in the USVI – when I met him I was terribly confused by things that happened in my life ie. I buried my husband – when our daughter was 5 mo and 22 days – he was 21 1 mo and 29 days – he was injured in the Army – long story short – I knew I needed to come closer to God and our relationship – was in part at first because I needed a better understanding – to get this straight – he did not leave us – I left MN with my children – against his wishes. Yes I am aware I am guilty of living in sin with him – I am sideways so to speak with the WHOLE picture because he is in the pulprit preaching – he is marrying – uniting people – he is baptising people – he is claiming he is saved – ? I was new to the church – I was trying to learn the bylaws – trying to learn about God – his, Gods expectations – I learned alot from this church don’t misunderstand me please – I still hold close alot of the teachings I learned from this church but -I was really confused due to my home life and the contradictions – of the things I was learning in church. I went to church there faithfully for the first five yrs I was there – but it became much to conflicting – the whole situation was just not right – when I tried to speak to the pastor about this – I felt completely shuned. I was not going to him to cause problems – I really needed him to be my pastor – many of the things I learned while I was there I still to this day – hold close – sermon titles – I still quote today. I learned alot from this church – nothing can take that away – because I was supposedly married to a Sr Elder – I was considered a Missionary – went to the Elders and Ministers wives meetings – yet stayed as unrelated as possible – I once had the pastors wife ask me – why was I no longer attending these meetings I explained to her – very briefly that one day – she would understand – but I simply could NOT go into detail. I feel I was convicted – I knew within myself – it was not right – I feared what may happen to my children due to the consequences – of their fathers actions- I began to put money aside so when I did leave – I could provide for my children. From the time I was convicted – I no longer shared a bed with him – I owned the home we were in and daily asked him to help me resolve what was not right – I even asked him – my childrens father to please pray with us as a family – that we could make things right before the presence of the Lord – I will never forget his response – he laughed – he has since apologized and said he wishes he would have done as I asked – we met in the USVI – I had never gone to a COGIC – till we had been together for more then 2 yrs and I was pregnant with our first child. You can twist this however you want to to make it right for you…, truth is – he is a Sr Elder in the COGIC – he has 7 kids from 5 different women- which I was not aware of till much later and – he was only married to two of the mothers – AND HE IS STILL IN – the COGIC he will not be one that has to provide a thorough back ground check – not an employee- but does have direct contact with children – CHILDREN- and vulnerable women for counseling.

]]> By: vrr http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10836 vrr Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:31:51 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10836 COGIC’s new sexual abuse initiatives (if you want to call it new) doesn’t go far enough. It still has left an environment for sexual abuse to continue. Notice the new policy is only requiring mandatory criminal backgrounds for those employees hired by the national church. If that is than the case, than whom does that include? Remember Enoch Perry said in his deposition that the national church only has about 75 or so employees. So are we talking about those in national positions as well? When it comes to the local church they new initiative says that it only recommends that local church do background checks of their employees. There’s not even a strong mandate for the type of training they should have. It’s apparent that COGIC didn’t’ consult with any victims of sexual abuse to get advice on what they need to do in their church. The only person COGIC probably consulted is a “risk management and assessment company” to protect its assets. It’s no different than an insurance company coming out to your house and recommending to you how to tighten up your carpet so no guests visiting your home doesn’t trip and fall. See what the national church is clearly trying to do is set up a dividing line between the them and local church for legal reasons. If they were to tell the local churches to get mandatory criminal background checks of their employees as well, than what that says in a court of law is that the national church is calling the shots and can therefore be held liable for sexual abuse lawsuits. Because authority is clearly coming from a hierarchy. So the new initiative doesn’t need to be applauded because it’s a sorry effort to address the real issues. Like Pastor Burnet says, what about the victims and there families, what is the national church going to do to help them with counseling and to help restore their confidence back in trusting church again. The policies of the national church are the same old policies just reworded, that’s it! COGIC position is that they aren’t responsible for the local congregation. They’ll take your money of course, but don’t have any liabilities for them. I believe COGIC isn’t serious about clergy sexual abuse on any level. They talk about the children but what about the vulnerable adults that are exploited by clergy every year in COGIC. I don’t think God is please with their efforts one bit. COGIC’s new sexual abuse initiatives (if you want to call it new) doesn’t go far enough. It still has left an environment for sexual abuse to continue. Notice the new policy is only requiring mandatory criminal backgrounds for those employees hired by the national church. If that is than the case, than whom does that include? Remember Enoch Perry said in his deposition that the national church only has about 75 or so employees. So are we talking about those in national positions as well? When it comes to the local church they new initiative says that it only recommends that local church do background checks of their employees. There’s not even a strong mandate for the type of training they should have. It’s apparent that COGIC didn’t’ consult with any victims of sexual abuse to get advice on what they need to do in their church. The only person COGIC probably consulted is a “risk management and assessment company” to protect its assets. It’s no different than an insurance company coming out to your house and recommending to you how to tighten up your carpet so no guests visiting your home doesn’t trip and fall.

See what the national church is clearly trying to do is set up a dividing line between the them and local church for legal reasons. If they were to tell the local churches to get mandatory criminal background checks of their employees as well, than what that says in a court of law is that the national church is calling the shots and can therefore be held liable for sexual abuse lawsuits. Because authority is clearly coming from a hierarchy.

So the new initiative doesn’t need to be applauded because it’s a sorry effort to address the real issues. Like Pastor Burnet says, what about the victims and there families, what is the national church going to do to help them with counseling and to help restore their confidence back in trusting church again. The policies of the national church are the same old policies just reworded, that’s it! COGIC position is that they aren’t responsible for the local congregation. They’ll take your money of course, but don’t have any liabilities for them.

I believe COGIC isn’t serious about clergy sexual abuse on any level. They talk about the children but what about the vulnerable adults that are exploited by clergy every year in COGIC. I don’t think God is please with their efforts one bit.

]]> By: Paul N http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10803 Paul N Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:09:24 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10803 Be strong in The LORD and in the power of His might! Pastor you will not have any clue of how much and how many your work has helped until you get to heaven. Its far beyond you can fathom, I am sure of that. God bless you! Be strong in The LORD and in the power of His might!

Pastor you will not have any clue of how much and how many your work has helped until you get to heaven. Its far beyond you can fathom, I am sure of that.

God bless you!

]]> By: Paul N http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10802 Paul N Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:06:00 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10802 You spoke my heart Pastor. God cannot be pleased with an attitude like this. You spoke my heart Pastor. God cannot be pleased with an attitude like this.

]]> By: gcmwatch http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10801 gcmwatch Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:54:18 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10801 Paul I dont think youre not being harsh at all. Although the church is acting as if the children are expendable in some ways, this is a serious moral, legal and spiritual blight in the midst of COGIC right now. To downplay and call it "flavor of the year" was small minded and trite. But perhaps it shows whats in the heart. Those leaders who make light of it or snip at me for bringing attention to it are only piling on retribution from God. It would be different if this was nothing but innuendo and gossip. They would be justified in responding the way they do. But these are real cases with real people attached to them. To shuck it as if there's no big hurry is reprehensible. I dont wish evil or ill will on anyone, but if one of those victims in the 30 odd cases we currently cite were their child, I dont think it would be the same response. Paul I dont think youre not being harsh at all. Although the church is acting as if the children are expendable in some ways, this is a serious moral, legal and spiritual blight in the midst of COGIC right now. To downplay and call it “flavor of the year” was small minded and trite. But perhaps it shows whats in the heart.

Those leaders who make light of it or snip at me for bringing attention to it are only piling on retribution from God. It would be different if this was nothing but innuendo and gossip. They would be justified in responding the way they do. But these are real cases with real people attached to them.

To shuck it as if there’s no big hurry is reprehensible. I dont wish evil or ill will on anyone, but if one of those victims in the 30 odd cases we currently cite were their child, I dont think it would be the same response.

]]> By: Paul N http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10791 Paul N Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:47:56 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10791 I dont know If I am being too harsh but whatever policies are being implemented dont do it for me, also the name "COGIC" is somewhat irrelevant to me also, I am talking about the Body Of Christ. When something is glossed over by saying in comparison sexual abuse is not that high in our denomination, that stinks! "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks", the bible also talks about if the head is sick then the body will be. Its not new policies that is needed its a change of heart! The bible is full of instructions of how to deal with sexual immorailty, lets impliment those first. I mean seriously, isnt it man that is making this thing more difficult than it needs to be. Maybe I am off and If I am wrong I accept correction but this situation really bothers me. I dont know If I am being too harsh but whatever policies are being implemented dont do it for me, also the name “COGIC” is somewhat irrelevant to me also, I am talking about the Body Of Christ.

When something is glossed over by saying in comparison sexual abuse is not that high in our denomination, that stinks!
“out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks”,
the bible also talks about if the head is sick then the body will be. Its not new policies that is needed its a change of heart! The bible is full of instructions of how to deal with sexual immorailty, lets impliment those first.

I mean seriously, isnt it man that is making this thing more difficult than it needs to be.

Maybe I am off and If I am wrong I accept correction but this situation really bothers me.

]]> By: gcmwatch http://www.gcmwatch.com/3755/cogic-pb-downplays-sexual-abuse-cases/comment-page-1#comment-10769 gcmwatch Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:13:19 +0000 http://www.gcmwatch.com/?p=3755#comment-10769 I am cautiously praising these new initiatives which are said to augment the previous policy. Of course there are still some fundamental problems with the whole approach. Nevertheless, I hope that changes will not just be implemented but actually practiced. And your proposal (to me) is much more comprehensive and actually addresses both sides of the issue. Predators (if they admit it) need help to stop and victims need help to heal. I read the comments with some chagrin because generally the posters never really talk about the subject matter, they just salute and praise the bishop for his "wise leadership". Maybe the moderator is still in Memphis? I dont even know who the comment moderator is and there's no tech issues contact on the site anywhere. Intentional? I hope to write a fuller review of the new initiatives shortly on reportcogicabuse.com I am cautiously praising these new initiatives which are said to augment the previous policy. Of course there are still some fundamental problems with the whole approach. Nevertheless, I hope that changes will not just be implemented but actually practiced. And your proposal (to me) is much more comprehensive and actually addresses both sides of the issue. Predators (if they admit it) need help to stop and victims need help to heal.

I read the comments with some chagrin because generally the posters never really talk about the subject matter, they just salute and praise the bishop for his “wise leadership”.

Maybe the moderator is still in Memphis? I dont even know who the comment moderator is and there’s no tech issues contact on the site anywhere. Intentional?

I hope to write a fuller review of the new initiatives shortly on reportcogicabuse.com

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