Also, I found it funny that Aaron quoted the two greatest commandments. The second actually comes from Leviticus 19, right between the two chapters (18 & 20) that give the law of Moses on sexual behaviour, which Jesus would’ve known. We need to keep in mind how Jesus, when dealing with sexual morality, actually raised the standard (Mt 5:27-28), but guys like Aaron seem to think that Jesus somehow did not consider it of importance. It’s also strange how you don’t see the same people who want to ignore what Leviticus has to say on homosexual behaviour also advocate incest and sex with animals…

Never mind that Jesus in Rev 2:14 (& also v20) makes it clear that he’s not happy about sexual immorality. But Aaron is obviously in a fog about this, notwithstanding his study.

btw, Aaron, Mt 22 is not part of the Sermon on the Mount. Have you really done years of study? As tactfully as I can say this, I am not impressed that it has been fruitful.

I was reading some of your post, and you appear to be an intelligent individual. And in as much as saying would you allow me to pay you the privilage of being blount w/some of my comments at times, this in know way is an attempt to pacify/insult your intelligence. The word of God is clear in both old and new testaments on the issue of homosexuality for sake of time and as I said, not attempting to insult your intelligence, I will not remind you of that which I know you’ve already read. You spoke of seeing things in different perspectives, but the use of that word can be in both the positive and negative. When it comes to the word of God, yes God will have (2) individuals read the same passage of scripture, and yes they will come up w/different perspectives, but nonetheless both view points will line up w/the word of God. We have (4) gospels, but all (4) though edifing moreso certain areas of Christ life echoe the same perspective, He is Prophet, Son, Savior, King, and yes God.

When speaking to the corinthians’ (1 Cor 14) the Apostle Paul said this, “Let all of you who “CONSIDER” (notice how I emphasize the word) yourselves spiritual and prophets, know that I speak the commandments of God, but if a man be ignorant, then let him be ignorant.” The apostle spoke this way, because he knew he was speaking to people who were more than aware of what he was speaking of, but “CHOSE” to not hear nor understand that which was clear. The book of proverbs talks about people w/understanding but choosing not to understand, and in the end making themselves to be worse than fools (I think we’ve all been at one time or the other guility of that). You spoke of people needing certain degrees in theology to appropriately understand the word of God, well me to speak of (12) individuals’ who had no serious book learning (thats not to say its not necessary or needed) but were loyal and needed only instruction, Christ took these men and changed the world. I speak of another individual the minor prophet Amos, who was a simple fruit farmer, there was an episode were the priest came to the king saying, “this man has no education nor any kind of learning, why are you listening to him” well the prophet Amos replied after hearing this, “you know your right I am only a simple fruit farmer, and yes I have no education nor special learing, but besides that, God took me out and I have a word from God for you.”

Friend I know God is still in the delivering business, for He’s the same yesterday, today and forever and if one wants to be delivered from this sin, yes sin, Jesus Christ will deliver that individual. The leprous man (the gospel of Matthew) said to Jesus, “Lord if you are willing, you can make me clean” and the Lord moved w/compassion said, “I am willing” and the man was made clean, you see if we want to be made clean, we must be willing and wanting to see our situation for what it is, not for what we want to see it as, for the Lord is already willing and wanting. Friend I say you are an intelligent individual, and I mean that without flattery, go back read the word of God, open your heart, mind and eyes, the Apostle Paul spoke after his blindness was healed and said, “it was like scales had been removed from his eyes.” Allow the scales to be removed from your eyes, as I also continue to the allow the scales to be removed from my eyes and see.

I don’t understand how I lied. Could you please explain? Are saying that gay people must repent of homosexuality, or homosexual sex, or what?

I really do want you to live in peace and joy and to live your life in self-sacrificial love, like that of Christ’s. I wish the same upon myself and everyone on this blog, and everyone in the world.

“The God of the bible is not a cultural God.”

I disagree, God is totally, completely and utterly focused on revealing himself through the context of the culture that people live in. Christ himself was a contextualization of God to humanity. God spoke through the babylonian flood creation myths to describe His creation of the world, when He was on Earth, He spoke aramaic and lived by the Jewish customs of His day. All of the authors of the New Testament wrote in their specific cultural contexts and God spoke through them via inspiration.

We must always remember the extraordinary ways that culture has effected the texts as we read them today, or it is so easy to read our own cultural assumption into God’s word. An example may be found in Romans 1 which you brought up. Of course Romans was written to Rome, and so a few facts about Rome must be remembered. The first is that Rome was the capital of the ancient world at that point and ruled the world, both secularly and religiously. The second thing to be remembered is that Rome was the capitol of pagan worship as well. Every idolatrous sect was more or less present in this place. Under Emperor Augustus, the cult of Cybele the Earth Mother grew to great prominence and this was strongly present in the Rome that Paul was writing to. Several practices of note with this cult include orgies, encouragement of gender confusion (apparently non-transgender males dressing as females and wearing make-up to look like women) and, of course, ritual castration. Even a quick reading will reveal that the language used is highly indicative of pagan idol worship. We are told about the group of people that Paul is describing that “[they] exchanged the glory of God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles,” (Romans 1: 23). We are told that they knew God, which suggests that these were Christians or Jews who had abandoned the faith for a pagan cult of some sort. It is only after this preface that we are told about the homosexual practices which resulted from their choice to adopt a idolatrous lifestyle. The most useful verse for your position, I think, is verse 26 which uses the greek for, “unnatural.” However, I remain unconvinced that this is referring to some universal natural law, but rather has a strongly cultural sense, given the same greek roots use in 1 Corinthians 11:14, which has often been understood as a purely cultural understanding. Of interest to this interpretation of Romans 1 is verse 27, which speaks of the men who, “received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” Self-castration would fit this nicely.

Thus, this interpretation could state that homosexual sex was probably forbidden by Paul for cultural reasons. Probably because of its’ association with roman fertility cult practices and possibly the threat that homosexual relationships could have to a patriarchally based society. With such strong family based units as the basis for society, it was culturally unnatural to allow such things.

And finally, Christ, on the Sermon on the Mount explains:

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22: 37-40).

And, more specifically:

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12).

In my opinion, you would have to prove that homosexuality or homosexual relationships are damaging to homosexuals or the people around them and thus break the Law of Christ. I think it is unlikely that you can demonstrate this. Site studies to prove me wrong if you wish.

*Sigh* I am willing to discuss this, of course, and I am open to being intellectually challenged here, but I think that it is unlikely that you are. Perhaps this will be of some benefit to the other readers, however. Lol, at the very least we can hone each others thoughts on this issue.

Please believe me when I say that I pray peace, love and joy on us all.

I assume that if you expound the belief that homosexual sexual union is against God’s will, then you must therefore uphold one of these lifestyles as necessary for the same sex attracted believer. It would seem that the only two choices are acceptance of homosexual identity and accompanying celibacy or ex-gay therapy and “recovery” if such a thing is possible.

GCMW: So in other words, you lied. Repentance is the appropriate word. Hopefully, instead of all the phoney “peace, love and joy” you should discover the meaning of that word.

“Regardless of your perception, repentance from your sins is still in order.”

Repentance is necessary for all believers, including myself. However, your continuing insistence that God’s will on this issue is obvious from the scriptures is incorrect, in my opinion. There is a case for your side, however, to say it is a clear cut victory is far from the truth. When cultural context is taken into account and the movement of the Holy Spirit today in the homosexual community today is considered, I think it becomes very hard to continue to hold a simple conservative stance.

GCMW: The God of the bible is not a cultural God. When you reject Him, the only option available to you is to make your own god, one to your own liking whom you are able to manipulate and like a lap dummy say what you want it to say. Looks like you and the gay christian adherents have greedily ran after your own devices. As Romans 1 says professing yourself to be wise, you have become a fool.

Peace, love and joy.

My purpose in my last post was not to convince you of the rightness of my beliefs; that would be foolish. I think you’ll agree that there is nothing I can say to change your mind. My purpose was to beseech the authors of the website and some of the posts to speak with a more obvious empathy towards those that you are telling must be celibate for life or go through (what can be) the deeply traumatic experience of ex-gay therapy.

GCMW: Where has anyone on this blog demanded that gays “be celibate for life” or go through “deeply traumatic exgay therapy”? Be specific or correct your statement.

Reading the above comments and those from other areas in the site, I expressed my overwhelming feeling of being judged, and I certainly felt none of God’s loving kindness. Rebuke must always be done in love, not repugnance. Genuinely, it sounds as if many of the commenters are speaking from a deep hatred rather then a deep love and desire for their brothers and sisters in Christ to walk upright.

GCMW: Regardless of your perception, repentance from your sins is still in order. Try telling God I didnt repent because the commenters on GCM Watch sounded hateful. Even if it were true (which its not), there is no “hate clause” that exempts you from repentance.

I was also asking for some intellectual humility. The reason for this is that what is obvious to you is not necessarily obvious to another. Two people may read the same book but quite commonly come to very different and even contradictory interpretations. You may or may not be right in your interpretation of the text, and you may or may not be right in your belief in the sole role of scripture as the guide for a Christians life.

GCMW: Its not a question of who’s right, but what is right. God’s Word is right 100% of the time. Jesus said we should live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. He did and so should those who claim to be following Christ. All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, rebuke, correction and training in righteousness. It doesnt matter if 1000 people read the same book and come up with different interpretations. If all 1000 interpretations go against the very clearly stated good and perfect will of God, then all are wrong.

I think that many of the writers here would benefit from a dose of, “Could they be right?” In my opinion, genuine dialogue only takes place when we accept the possibility of the other side being right. If your opponents sense that you are genuinely trying to see from their point of view, you may have more success.]

GCMW: If the “other side” (whoever that may be) is claiming that homosexuality is not a sin, not an affront to God and not detrimental to the spiritual health of the individual and the corporate church, no there exists no possibility that they could be right. That’s based on God’s word, not “intellectual humility”.

Peace, love and joy be upon you all.

We’re not discussing the origin of God here. We are discussing God’s simple and clear command to abstain from any and all sexual activity which he has condemned. So what deep studies do you need to conduct to come to the conclusion that if God says no and stop, it means no and stop.
A child learns these simple lessons from his or her parent without a bachelor’s degree in child psychology. If the parent says “dont do that”, the child will learn one way or the other what the parent means. Simple lessons.

Stop arguing with God’s stop signs. Its foolish and arrogant to put words in God’s mouth or create ideologies from something he has not ordained.