Category — Exgaywatch

There’s a new pecking order of  gay christians in town. As defined by the gay christian network (GCN), individuals who believe you can be gay, have unrestricted sex and the whole nine are called “Side A” gay christians. The ones who believe you should just call yourself gay but refrain from sex for an unspecified amount of time are labeled “Side B” gay christians. But after a visit from Alan Chambers, the public face of Exodus International to a GCN conference Jan 6th in Orlando, we are prompted to add one more class of gay christian and name it “Side C”.

The C is for compromised, confused, careless and carnal. One thing is ironically clear: statements about homosexuality by Alan Chambers rarely result in clarity.

Over a roughly two hour period, Chambers rattled off a stream of statements seemingly more in sync with trending progay theology than the biblical position Exodus claims to uphold for the last 30-odd years.  In response to a question about the Exodus slogan “change [from homosexuality] is possible”, Chambers said:

“The majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them, have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction. I think there is a gender issue there, there are some women who have challenged me and said that my orientation or my attractions have changed completely. Those have been few and far between. The vast majority of people that I know do still experience some level of same-sex attraction.”

Reflections, Reactions and Rebranding

The aftermath of Chamber’s appearance with the self declared homosexual christian group set off a firestorm of support, sharp criticism and everything in between.

Randy Thomas, a former Exodus official: “This isn’t shocking to me because Alan has always had a heart for those that oppose the work of Exodus and the truth of Alan’s testimony (which directly and indirectly represents thousands of us in some way shape or form.) I trust Alan and know his strength of conviction is completely wrapped up in God’s redeeming grace … I wasn’t worried for him or them. I was actually quite proud of him.”

Haydn Sennitt, a Syndey based ministry leader: “However, being outnumbered on such a huge scale would have put psychological strain on him to obfuscate, weaken his position, say things which- in hindsight- he might regret.  In the first 5-6 minutes he did exactly that: his first comments were to joke about drinking martinis and smoking cigarettes at an Exodus conference and laughed at a joke by the ‘gay Christian’ conference convenor that tacitly mocked Exodus conference attendees.  I was shocked. ”

Debbie Thurman, Christian journalist and former lesbian,  “I commend Alan for his honesty and clarity. Is that [Chamber's statement] an earth-shattering statement, as some are interpreting it to be? Not for me, and not really for Alan. “I have said similar things before. The fact of the matter is that 100 percent of humanity is fallible and we will be until death parts us from our flesh,” he told me. “I cannot speak for others who say that temptation or attraction don’t equal orientation. As a layman with regard to that issue, I tend to link them all together, and that is where that 99.9 percent, non-scientific/anecdotal/experiential statement comes from,” Alan added.

Exgaywatch, a blog that primarily criticizes Chambers and Exodus: “Playing to both sides on this issue of gay Christians is not new for Exodus International. In March last year, Chambers enthusiastically affirmed the existence of gay Christians in an interview with the Oprah network’s Lisa Ling, only to water down his statements when challenged by his conservative evangelical constituents. What is new is that some gay Christians are now taking him at his word.”

Nakisha Thomas, an Orlando based ministry leader:  “I was a supporter of Exodus in the past. I had a wonderful time when I attended the national conference and encouraged my church to join their network. However – I am severing all ties with them because as the Bible has instructed – I have gone to the group privately on several occasions. I have reached out with witnesses – but I believe now is the time to warn the church of the danger of embracing an organization that will lead people into confusion and not to the light.”

Just who’s side is he on?

Imagine the president of Pepsi going  to a meeting of Coca Cola employees and saying to them that he only knew about 3 people who really liked Pepsi.   That probably would never happen in the dog-eat-dog cola wars, but Exodus’ president  expressed the same sentiment to the GCN who are admittedly hostile to the message of change, Exodus’ signature mantra.   The meeting was reported by the antichange website Exgaywatch,  and has subsequently sparked sharp debate even among homosexual activists. Chambers reportedly requested to be a guest on a panel session with the Gay Christian Network. For more about the GCN and its founder Justin Lee read here.

The panel discussion moderated by Lee also featured former Exodus leader John Smid, former Exodus leader Wendy Gritter and former Exodus leader Jeremy Marks. All of the aforementioned  now advocate prohomosexual theological positions.

While some are attempting to spin the appearance as “bridge building” and “being light among darkness”, the discussion doesn’t confirm that. Chambers didn’t spread light, he compromised truth to gain some sort of emergent church-like unity. Can supporters of Exodus now expect some reciprocal appearance by a gay christian at the Exodus “Freedom” conference?

If you want to review the entire 3 hour discussion, feel free: part one, part two

Flipside

Aside from the appearance itself, Chambers statement is problematic for several reasons:

1. The monkey wrench in mature discussions about change from homosexuality is the  “sexual orientation” theory. You can not argue biblical truth by attempting to juxtapose it with cultural ideology.  Sexual orientation is a linguistical misnomer created by the gay community to frame homosexuality as an immutable trait.  But the bible speaks from a different perspective. It tells us without equivocation that there is nothing that cannot change by the power of God. Not even death is permanent under his supernatural power. What’s more the Gospel itself is HOPE for change from whatever binds us. That Chambers cannot follow the biblical script is a sign of spiritual immaturity. And spiritually immature people have no place attempting to lead such a critical ministry outreach.

2. Chamber’s comments are a betrayal of biblical truth namely: (a)change or deliverance is fundamental biblical truth,  (b)the process whereby a person is changed once they confess and follow Jesus Christ is sanctification and (c) the ultimate consummation of change which occurs when Christ returns is (glorification). There is no separate trajectory for those who struggle with same sex attractions. The stark difference between the bible and gay christian theology is the definition of the word sin. They believe homosexuality is not a sin, the bible says it is.

3. Change in “sexual orientation” is a false –not to mention unbiblical– goal. The bible doesn’t make “changing sexual orientation” the goal of the Christian because there is no such thing. If God required the homosexual has to change his “orientation” then the heterosexual would have to likewise change his. But this is foolish carnality on display.  Biblically, there is only one “orientation”. Man to woman and woman to man in covenant marriage. Anything else is sin. Thus, our goal is to reject sin and embrace original intent holiness. Chamber’s assertion that 99.9% of people he’s met have not changed their “sexual orientation” is either a brazen lie or its a stunning testament to the failure of Exodus.  Its my belief that our goal should be the same goal as every other believe: to be holy. Our goal should be God’s goal for us, since we are his children.

4. Sexual orientation has no bearing on temptation. Temptation is allowed by God and used a tool to sharpen, strengthen and test the believer’s devotion to God’s standards. Temptation is not a sin and never will be. If it were,  Jesus Christ himself would be a sinner. Unfortunately, in the unyeilding black-white world of gay theology, even the slightest glimmer of  homosexual temptation is viewed as proof that the individual is still homosexual.

As a recognized “leader”, Chamber’s serial inconsistency has deeply affected the quality of ministry to individuals seeking freedom from homosexuality through faith in Christ. Chambers is quoted on a NARTH website as saying “I am one of tens of thousands of people whom have successfully changed their sexual orientation.”. But now, almost no one has changed? Not even him? This type of schizophrenic commentary is damaging and a disgrace to the legacy of the great pioneers of the freedom movement.

Be it resolved: The Exodus board should relieve Alan Chambers of his duties until he has satisfactorily completed comprehensive bible study.

Did Exodus President Alan Chambers misrepresent God’s love when responding to gay activist audiences? In a statement to the exgaywatch website question about his previous promise not to  involve his organization in politics Chambers said,

“My overwhelming message will be that God is deeply in love with the most adversarial of gay activists and that as these groups [political conservatives] do battle over policy they must never forget that fact.”

Is God deeply in love with adversarial gay activists? Im a little wary of language that romanticizes God to sinners. The scriptures do speak clearly of God’s love for humanity, prompting him to send his Son to die for our sins. Paul writes “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly”.

But clearly attached to God’s agape –which should not be confused with phileo or eros—  is a penalty for rejecting that love.  Read John 3:16-20. If we dont present the entire message of God’s love, arent we shortchanging those who we claim we’re trying to help? Accepting God’s love means you acknowledge your sinful condition and follow God’s plan of salvation.

Chambers is right about the conservative political action groups, yet we have to understand that “conservative” isnt a set parallel to biblical. Its problematic  to evoke the “treating people fairly” issue when homosexual activists equate being treated fairly to acceptance of their  destructive political and religious goals.

You should also read:

• Is God’s love greater than God’s judgment?
• The theological deficiency of Exodus International
• Exodus President calls ‘covenant friendships’ sinful

We promised to share sound biblical responses to the top 15 lies told by the gay christian movement in 2008. Im not sure if they will create new lies for 2009, but if they do rest assured the Bible has the truth standing at the ready.

1. There are homosexual couples in the bible.

There are two points to be made about homosexual couples in the bible. One, there may have well been homosexual couples in the bible, but there is no approval of those relationships. Everything in the bible is true, but not everything is truth. There are many things within the scriptures which are noted but not approved. Satan, incest, lying, murder exists but none of us would say that because it is found in scripture, then it is somehow justified behavior. Secondly, the individuals cited as proof of homosexual couples are not in fact homosexual couples. There exists nothing in the passages portraying Jonathan and David’s relationship as a homosexual one. Titus 1:15 says everything is clean to those who are clean, but nothing is clean to those who are corrupt and unbelieving. Indeed, their very way of thinking and their consciences have been corrupted.

2. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

To say that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality in scripture is a technical half-truth, and anything which is not fully truth becomes a lie. In Matthew 19: when Jesus was asked about divorce, the answer he gave condemned all sexual activity outside the male-female marriage convenant.  And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? No Christian should ever argue that just because Jesus did not specifically mention something in scripture then it is because he or we should approve of it. Jesus never mentioned smoking, child pornography or identity theft, but we know these behaviors are wrong.

3. God created homosexuals like he created heterosexuals.

Actually, God created us holy. Ephesians 1:4. According as hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:…” The bible tells us that God created man holy and sinless, but that because of disobedience, mankind passed on a sin gene spiritually that has infected every person that enters the world. Whether one is hetero or homo sexual is a moot issue. Heterosexual sinners as well as homosexual sinners will end up in the lake of fire. But the statement is still false. Homosexuality is not a created sexual expression equal to heterosexuality. While there are expressions of heterosexuality which are sinful, heterosexuality is not intrinsically sinful. Homosexuality carries an abomination rating, not so much because of the sexual act, but because unlike any other sin, it is a direct attack on the nature of God as Creator. Reference Romans 1 (homosexuality is anti-nature spiritually, emotionally, sexually and relationally).

4. Jesus loves, accepts and includes everyone.

Yes, Jesus loves accepts and includes every sinner but only as sinners seeking regeneration through repentance. All sinners are invited to come, but once they do come to Christ, according to Matthew 11:28, Christ expects them to “exchange” the heavy burden of sin for his yoke. In this case, homosexuality is that heavy burden of sin. Once a sinner has accepted Jesus as Saviour, he must also make him LORD. If he is truly LORD, then his true servants will obey all of his commandments.  Thus, the statement is a technical half-truth which intentionally conceals the most important aspect of the inclusive welcome of Christ. He welcomes all to come as they are and accept his standards of living while rejecting their own.

5. The Apostle Paul did not know of any loving same sex couples.

The assumption is that not personally knowing someone renders one (Paul) incapable addressing a situation. Its not necessary or required to know anyone personally to judge whether or not someone’s actions are sinful. That is why we have the sciptures, lest we opinionate on sin. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5, Paul said it was reported to him that a man was in a sexual relationship with his father’s wife. Based on this report, Paul commanded that the man be put out of the fellowship until he repented. The problem with judgment based solely on relationship knowledge is that a tendency exists to let our personal feelings for an individual prevent us from seeing sin for what it really is. Not only is this statement false in its intent, its a factual lie. Paul was an extremely educated man who was widely traveled. To suggest he didnt know any homosexual couples —”loving” or not— is to minimize his profound and expansive life experiences.

6. Christians are not required to live by Old Testament laws.

Answer: The bible, particularly the Old Testament has 3 types of laws: Ritual, moral and civil. Sometimes these three overlap. While all of the categories of known law reflect the nature of God and contain valuable lessons for all, not all are universally applicable. This is why 2 Tim 2:15 calls on us to “rightly divide” the Word so that we have proper application. Ritual laws applied only to the Jews, while civil laws applied to all who were under Jewish authority. However, moral laws(which covered sexual conduct) are timeless and universal. Jesus intentionally broke ritual laws (Matt 7:2) and when the situation required, he broke civil laws. But there exists no evidence Jesus broke moral laws. Nor is there any evidence he sanctioned or encouraged anyone else to do so.

7. The Bible was only talking about temple prostitutes, not loving couples.

God never condemned homosexuality on condition of consensuality. He condemned the act. Therefore, regardless of what context that act occured in, it is condemned. Time and culture do not affect God’s moral laws. For example murder is just as wrong today as it was when Cain murdered Abel. Sexual expression is no different. If God has condemned a sexual act, then his word remains the same no matter who is involes or why they are doing it.

8. God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality but because of inhospitality.

It would be much more truthful to say that homosexuality wasn’t the only sin which caused Sodom’s destruction. In Ezekiel 16:49-50, God says there were multiple reasons Sodom was destroyed. “Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it. The word “abominations” in this passage refers to the sexual perversion of sodom.

9. The eunuchs Jesus spoke of in Matthew 19 are the same as today’s gay men.

All eunuchs in the bible were men, so the statement fails to justify lesbianism. In fact, eunuchs were men who were incapable of having sex. Every eunuch mentioned, from the eunuchs which threw the wicked queen Jezebel to her death to the Ethiopian eunuch baptized by Philip the evangelist, were righteous.

10. The bible has been used to beat up and subjugate blacks and women, now its being used to bash gays.

Yes, the bible has been misused to mislead people, but that doesnt make the bible wrong it makes the people who misused it wrong. The bible is also being misused by people who claim that God is okay with homosexuality when it says just the opposite. Yes, the bible has been misused against women and against people of color but this is no reason to continue misusing it by encouraging people to live in sexual rebellion and still claim to be followers of Christ.

11. Homosexuality is a gift from God just like heterosexuality.

First, there is zero scriptural basis for the claim that homosexuality is a gift from God. This claim is so outrageously false, I feel I must respond with raw truth. Romans 1:26-27 clearly teaches that homosexual behavior is not a matter of a person simply choosing to act on their desires. Conventional “wisdom” says that gays are born with the same sex attractions which at some point naturally progress into behavior. But a careful reading of the text shows homosexuality is not a progression from orientation to behavior, but a digression into death set in motion by God himself. Homosexual behavior is the result of a person refusing to reject their ungodly desires despite the clear word from the Lord concerning it. If we rightly divide Romans 1, homosexuality is not a gift but rather a payment for rejecting Gods truth. Romans 1 even teaches that such people fall so deep in deception that they exchange the truth for a lie. Clearly, the fruit of this lie to call a punishment from God a gift. The payment for sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. Romans 6:23.

12. Gay people are the new gentiles of the church.

Acts 15 gives us a very clear picuture of the first century gentiles who came to salvation. And it tells us how the apostles dealt with controversies which arose because of them. The major dispute arose from some Jews’ attempt to force new gentile converts to be circumcised as a prequisite for salvation and consequently the apostles met in Jerusalem to resolve the matter. The outcome of that historic meeting set forth two clear standards for the gentiles. (1) they were to abstain from all forms of sexual immorality and (2) they were to abstain from idolatry, blood and strangled foods. If they did this, the Apostlic council said, they would do well. Now, if the Apostles commanded the gentiles to abstain from all forms sexual immorality, how is it possible that gay christians are the new gentiles?

13. The church is lagging behind science and will be on the wrong side of history.

God’s Word was established before science was ever thought of. Ps 90 FRom everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent. Has he not said it, will he not perform it? Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers and the flowers fade but the word of the Lord shall stand forever. Both science and scientists have been proven wrong before, but God’s word is true 100% of the time.

14. Homosexuals do not need to repent, be saved, delivered from or changed from their natural sexual orientation.

The fundamental problem with this position is that it changes the basic definition of sin. This is dangerous to the church because if we can willfully change definitions of certain behaviors, then we alter what people understand the consequences of that behavior to be. For instance, if our government were to make rape legal, there would be no negative consequences for the rapist legally. Likewise if the definition of what is or is not sin, especially when there’s a clear definition in scripture, it will deceive people and consequently lead to spiritual death.

15. Without gays in the church writing and singing the music, the church wouldnt have anyone to depend on.

Romans 11:29 teaches that gifts and calling are irrevocable. In other words, they are not subject to recall by God. And although God does indeed give gifts without regard to a person’s spiritual status, gifts and callings are never an accurate indicator of relationship with Christ. Without a relationship, Christ will tell such people to “depart for I never knew you” Thats sad and tragic to spend your life in church in a relationship with the gift but not the giver of the gift.

2008 was the year of major whoppers coming out of the gay christian movement. Here the their 15 biggest lies as summarized by GCM Watch.

 1. There are homosexual couples in the bible.

2. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

3. God created homosexuals like he created heterosexuals.

4. Jesus loves, accepts and includes everyone. (technical half-truth)

5. The Apostle Paul did not know of any loving same sex couples.

6. Christians are not required to live by Old Testament laws.

7. The Bible was only talking about temple prostitutes, not loving gay couples.

8. God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah because of homosexuality. (another technical half-truth)

9. The eunuchs Jesus spoke of in Matthew 19 are the same as today’s gay men.

10. The bible has been used to beat up blacks and women, now its being used to bash gays.

11. Homosexuality is a gift from God, just like heterosexuality

12. Gay people are the new gentiles of the church.

13. The church is lagging behind science and will be on the wrong side of history.

14. Homosexuals do not need to repent, be saved or changed from their natural sexual orientation.

15. Without gays in the church writing and singing the music, the church wouldnt have anyone to depend on.

In our next post, we’ll answer each of these lies in a concise manner with scripture.

Soulforce seems to have a problem telling the truth. That’s no big surprise, as we saw that with the mega church media scam in July. But just about every aspect of Soulforce (farce?) operations routinely use lies and distortions to shoot their equality vemon further into society. They have been stalking Christian colleges for the last two years.

We’ve reported before on the Equality Riders. They remind me of the door to door magazine hucksters who choose socially confused kids from low income, broken homes, feed them a chunk of lies and then put them on buses to lie and sell magazines. And sometimes other things. Take a look at one of the co-leaders of the group, a exJW. He too likes to engage in lying among other things.

SAFE (Students Against False Equality) posted on their blog that ahead of their protest commencing at Liberty University,  Soulforce released a “media advisory” with patently false information. The statement said (in all caps) ”Liberty to allow Equality Riders on Campus”. Exgaywatch spread the falsehood without even so much as questioning it. 

But the Lynchburg News Advance quoted LU spokesman Johnnie Moore as saying “We told them that they were restricted to the sidewalks.”

The group distributed a news release Monday afternoon stating that “Five young adult Equality Riders will donate gay-affirming Christian books to the Liberty University library and talk with students about safety and acceptance for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender students.”

Liberty Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said the school had not agreed to allow the activists on campus.

“I’m not sure where that information is coming from,” he said. “I don’t know if there’s a misunderstanding, or what.”

Captain Al Thomas with the LPD said he had approved Soulforce’s application to demonstrate but had not said the group would be allowed on campus.

“That’s going to be totally Liberty’s call. It’s their discretion. It’s private property,” Thomas said.

“When they (Soulforce members) are on city property, I’ll make sure they’re safe and orderly. If they decide to venture on campus, then we will help Liberty (University Police Department) with that if needed.”

Now, let’s see if we can figure this out: “allowed on campus”,  ”restricted to sidewalk”? Those two sound as different as east and west. And why would any Christian school want to allow these people access to their students?? That’s like a Jewish synagogue letting a bunch of Nazis teach jewish history to its congregation.

Related:

•  God’s righteousness vs gcm’s equality
• SAFE preparing schools for Soulforce protest

“The truth is that homosexuality does not send people to hell. Gay people live in heaven. It’s not about fire and brimstone, it’s about an alternative option,” Chambers said.

That’s a statement Alan Chambers made to a North Carolina newspaper in defense of its annual Freedom Conference in session from July 15-20.  Read this statement backwards, forward, from the middle out and from the center in. I did,  and unfortunately I could find no biblical basis –or context– for it whatsoever.

Gay people live in heaven?

Perhaps there are reasons why Alan Chambers, as president of Exodus International would make such an irresponsible statement. Maybe the Asheville Citizen-Times misquoted him or maybe it just concocted this statement out of thin air in a brazen case of media bias against Christians. Or perhaps the paper quoted him out of context.

But more than likely none of that is true. Given the astonishing string of ignorant and unbiblical messages we have heard from Exodus leaders in the media in recent times, once again we have to say it is due to the shallow, if not nonexistent, theological maturity of its leadership. In these days and times, with the pervasiveness of false doctrine and false teachers, this can be dangerous for people attempting to come out of homosexuality. More than just “mixed messages”, this is sheer irresponsibility in handling the gospel and the ministry of freedom.

The entire article contained quotes by Exodus participants, but none offered any biblical context for being at the conference , having the conference, personally coming out of homosexuality or for others to be set free from homosexuality.

Several weeks ago, our friend Rik wrote that the Exodus message is foundationally flawed in that it “blends Freudian psychology with the Christian worldview.” We referenced that in our own commentary which questioned Exodus’ apparent lack of theological muscle.  And after reading this article and the statements made by Chambers and others therein, its become even more apparent that Exodus is caught in an infantile stage of biblical understanding. Milk is for the carnal and appropriate for the beginning stages (1 Cor 3:1), but after 33 years, Exodus should be serving a healthy dose of meat.

Chambers’ statement even shocked the political religionists at exgaywatch (for different reasons).