GCM adherents

Gay Christian Movement adherents at a glance

The gay christian movement is, at once, both individually autonomous and universally singleminded. It keeps no “membership” statistics nor has any central leadership therefore, its actual numerical strength is unknown. The exception may be one gcm leader’s unverifiable claim that there are “millions” of “ex-ex-gays.” This page contains a synopsis of 12 of the presumably prominent homosexual religious groups we currently map (monitor, analyze, publish). While there is loose association between the groups, the main unifier seems to be the proliferation of homosexual rights within the Christian church.

Beyondexgay

Beyondexgay (BEG) is a reactionary group begun by several ex-ex-gays in protest to the policies and claims of Exodus North America. Since, its founding earlier this year, Beyondexgay has launched parodied versions of Exodus conferences for individuals who desire to return to homosexuality as gay christians.

The Fellowship

Yvette Flunder, a lesbian pastor, founded the Fellowship in 2000 while being proclaimed a bishop. Flunder, the granddaughter of a COGIC bishop, folded her pentecostal sensitivities and musical talent (as a member of the Walter Hawkins singers) into black gay christian activism. The Fellowship appeals to an African American religious mindset while rejecting traditional biblical sexual morality. More about Yvette Flunder and Fellowship2000 here and here.

Soulforce

Soulforce was forged as a thorn in the side movement to the late Christian conservative leader Rev. Jerry Farwell. Soulforce founder, James (Mel) White divorced his wife in the mid 80s after revealing his attraction to men and began living with a male partner. White formerly worked for Farwell and other conservative leaders, but in 1993 because of his failure to overcome homosexuality, he declared his homosexuality a “gift from God.” Soulforce adopted an odd ideological mix, borrowing teachings from Ghandi, Martin Luther King and selected Christian teachings, but maintaining a mostly Christian veneer which we termed “political religion.”

Whosoever Magazine

Whosoever Magazine is an online gay christian movement collection of writings, essays and theological templates advocating the belief that gays can be true Christians while maintaining a homosexual lifestyle. With a premise rooted in John 3:16, Whosoever claims gays are “already justified by their faith and sanctified by grace alone.”

Evangelicals Concerned (east and west regions)
DEFUNCT, folded into the gay christian network.

GayChristian

A gay christian movement social networking site.

Unity Fellowship of Christ aka Unity Fellowship Church of Christ

The UFC is an association of about a dozen predominately gay African American churches mostly situated in east and west coast urban areas. Founded in 1982 by Bishop Carl Bean, the church espouses standard gay theology with a pentecostal twist. Simular to Bishop Yvette Flunder, Bean was formerly involved in the black gospel music ministry, most notably with the Alex Bradford Singers. Bradford [1927-1978] was known for his “flamboyant stage presence.” UFC’s mission statement does not mention the gospel or even Christ but “focusing on empowering those who have been oppressed and made to feel shame.”

Exgaywatch

Exgaywatch is an self described online watchdog group which claims to hold exgay ministries accountable. While not overtly Christian, XGW frequently employs the writings of individuals within the gay christian movement to buttress its religious arguments. Exgaywatch practices political religion i.e. religion is valid only through the prism of gay rights advances.

CLGS Pacific School of Religion

The CLGS is a function of the liberal Pacific School of Religion. According to its website, the CLGS was established to “advance the well-being of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered people and to transform faith communities and the wider society by taking a leading role in shaping a new public discourse on religion and sexuality through education, research, community building and advocacy.” In simpler terms, the Center produces spokesmen for the gay christian movement.

Metropolitan Community Churches

Arguably the “mother” of the gay christian movement, the MCC is the work of Troy Perry, a former Church of God minister, who after refusing to repent for his homosexuality, started the gcm’s most organized aggregation of gay christians. Perry’s life set the tone for future gay christian movement male (and some female) leaders who (1) committed homosexual adultery while married (2) abandoned their husbands/wives for female/male sexual partners and (3) consequently declared their actions “ok” with God.

Christian Lesbians

After 15 years in a “conservative Christian denomination” CL founder Anita Cadonau had a revelation: she was a lesbian. This came to her (she alleged) without any prior thoughts or inclinations towards homosexuality. It occured after what Cadonau relates was an intense dissatisfaction with her life, which she attempted to resolve through prayer. Her post-prayer conclusion was that God told her she was a lesbian and thus her unhappiness completely alleviated. This isolated experience formed the backdrop for the online social networking site she set up and consequently the basis of the doctrine she now espouses.

Exgay.com

The politcal gay community’s stance towards “exgays” runs from smoldering disdain to outright hatred. Nevertheless, founder Marc Adams co-opted the term for his website. Like most gcm adherents, such sites and groups are a reflection of the founder’s personal belief system. Therefore; if the individual is flawed, he or she tends to possess a flawed view of Christianity. Adams’ view of Christianity appears to be comprised of how one is raised, a parent’s spiritual status and even what type of school one attends.

United Progressive Pentecostal Church (UPPC)

The UPPC is a homosexual religious organization started by a Oliver Clay Allen, a former Seventh Day Adventist member from Los Angeles. Its racial makeup is predominately African American. Like many who formulate such organizations, Allen initially sought “deliverance” from his homosexuality but sources say the death of his younger sister played a part in abandoning his quest to overcome his homosexual lifestyle. Allen’s “husband” is the organization’s Director of Leadership Development. The UPPC copies apostolic/pentecostal doctrine and expression but rejects biblical truth about homosexuality.

46 Responses to GCM adherents

  1. Marc Adams says:

    Ummm.. Someone made a BIG assumption here. I am not a Gay Christian. I was a born again fundamentalist Baptist Christian for 23 years but I escaped that.

    Before you assume someone is a Christian, gay or otherwise, why don’t you ask them? That way you avoid offending someone.

    Additionally, if you are trying to accurately report information, don’t you think it should be accurate?

    HeartStrong does provide support and outreach to GLBT people from religious educational insitutions but only some of them are Christian. HS provides support to Jewish, Muslim and other students as well.
    It is NOT a religious or Christian organization.

    Thanks for allowing this clarification. Without reporting accurate information like your assumption that I am a Christian, then you are just spreading misinformation. The people who read your information who think like you do, need to know the truth, not assumptions.
    Marc Adams

    GCMW: If you are offended at the assumption that you are Christian, then why does your organization portray a Christian veneer. Is that intentional? Why are only Christian colleges targeted by you and not any Muslim, Jewish or “other”? No evidence of that on your site. Perhaps that is advantageous to you because it is okay to portray Christian schools (ala Soulforce) as “homophobic” or “terrorists” as you state on your site. What are your statistics on your Jewish, Muslim and “other” clients in comparison to those who claim Christianity? You’ve also accepted financial support from Christian organizations, but no Muslim or Jewish. You really haven’t clarified anything but youre welcome to answer the above questions. Before you do, check with Christian Lesbians. They have you listed as a “Christian resource“.

    • Sharron says:

      Well let me give you the FACTS and what IS accurate! Gay people can NOT I repeat can NOT live a Christian lifestyle, so they should NEVER be called Christians! Nor can a man be honorably and legally married to another man, and a woman with a woman in the eyes of GOD (Jesus Christ) who ordained marriage for ONE man and ONE woman! Lastly, the gay community is NOT hated by REAL Christians, but we DO hold you up in prayer that God convicts your heart and mind and turn you back to Him! Shalom!

  2. Grobanite says:

    An oxymoron indeed, a “gay Christian”. This is not only a lie but is offensive in the nostrils of God. Christ is the Radiance of God’ glory and should not be connected in such a manner to such abomination.

    Here is the usurper attempting to wear that which does not belong to him.

    Being ready to protect one who is struggling with this addiction must be done with much finesse so as not to appear as an inabler. When we do this, inable we then become the trapper who snares and keeps the trapped enslaved by their sins.

    Christ must break the chains. We are not equiped to do so. We give the gospel, the Holy Spirit convicts and Christ is the reaper of the fruit. There is much work in this and it takes a lifetime to complete. One thing is necessary before anything can go on, Love. That is not acceptance without truth.

  3. gcmwatch says:

    It is indeed oxymoronic to pair the words gay and Christian. Thats why we intentionally lower case both words to emphasize this is not biblical Christianity but rather a false religious cult not worthy of being called by our Lord’s name.

  4. Romans 6:23 says:

    I believe whole-heartedly in Jesus covering for our sins. I also believe that the struggle with homosexual lust has its bearings, or foundation, in lust–just like that struggle of many heterosexual Christians. I think that it is just as much of an oxymoron to say “Christian liars”. We all sin, that is why we need Jesus. But to say that Jesus does not love those who sin, and that they cannot be Christians is not at all biblical. If anyone can find me something that says that Jesus hated the sinner–not the sin–please show me my err. Romans 6:23 says, “The wages of sin is death…” it doesn’t say “the wages of only specific kinds of sin is death…” It finishes by saying, “…but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” There is no “except if you do this or that.” As Christians we are all called to love our neighbor as ourselves. If we want to be more like Christ–which is a pretty good thing to strive for if you ask me–than we ought to try to live as he lived. Eat with the sinners. He came, not for those who already believed, but for those who were broken. My point is, we all–even as Christians–screw up every day, multiple times. While I agree that homosexuality is a sin, I do not agree in necessarily condemning them–that is not for me to do. Just as it is not my position to condemn any other person.

    • Anders says:

      I dont think any sincere believer would condemn another believer for simply struggling with sin. but this is not about that. its about 1Corinthians 5:9-11

      “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.”

  5. As the bible says, a little bit of leaven raises the whole lump as it has done with the Gay Christian Movement.:

    - First we heard gays were born that way, and people believed it.
    - Then we heard God made them that way, and Christians began believing that.
    - Next step — since God made them that way, they don’t need to change. The Bible couldn’t be trusted anymore because it was mistranslated.
    - Since the Bible wasn’t an authority anymore then repentence wasn’t nesessary.
    - Since God made them that way, then it’s ok to have gay sex.
    - Actually it’s sin to disobey God’s decision to make them gay. They must have gay sex to acknowledge their creator.
    - Now we hear ex-gay Christians are disobedient to the way God made them.

    There you have it, it just keeps getting worse.

  6. Tony says:

    The hate expoused on this website is ASTOUNDING.
    Gay people merely want to live there lives as honestly and with as much integrity as everyone else.

    Why is this notion so hard for hateful conservative exclusionary Christians to proccess?

    Although modern science is not difinitive in its conclusion that same-sex sexuality is of a biological origin, they are not far from this conclusion. What will the HATEFUL nasty vitrioloic “Gay Haters” say when modern science finally makes it a “scientific “fact that same sex attraction is biological in origin?

    I guess the Love of God is for everyone except GAYS huhh? you guys are disgusting and make me want NOTHING to do with the church.

    This whole website exist as a Witch Hunt against Gay Christian organizations who exist ‘SOLELY” to prevent — ONE SINGLE SOLITARY Gay kid from committing suicide because of the church abandoning them. If that means we have to be at war with the obselete teachings (Interpretations) of the Christian text, so be it, in the final analysis denominations and schools of thought that continue to defy the progress of society and WILLFULLY exclude gay christians ( who really love God contrary to the lies posted up and down this site) — Such churches and fundamentalist organizations will die as did greek mythology and ancient religions of old.

    STAND Proud Gay and Lesbian, Progressive Straight, Christians of all ethnic backgrouns.

    We Shall Over Come, NO DOUBT!

    • Lacee says:

      Just sit down and read the bible. Do not allow yourself to be swayed by the world around you. I believe you are at war within yourself and it’s coming out in your posts! Allow the spirit of God to lead you to the truth! In the end you will have to answer to God for what you have done and said! You are not hurting the author of this post or the creator of this website by name calling, but you are moving yourself further away from God and closer to the enemy. Ephesians 4:22-24 (or just read the whole chapter)!

  7. JAMES says:

    STILL BEING SOMEWHAT YOUNG AND CONFUSED AS TO CHRISTIANITY AND HOMOSEXUALITY I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF SOMEONE COULD GIVE ME THEIR OPINION OF WHOSOEVER MAGAZINE’S INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURES THAT ARE USUALLY USED TO DENOUNCE HOMOSEXUALITY. I MIGHT BE BIASED BUT IT SEEMS IT COULD BE INTERPRETED EITHER WAY; FOR OR AGAINST.. ALTHOUGH, EVEN IF IT IS ACCEPTABLE BY GOD, THE ACT OF LUSTING AND FORNIFICATION WITH SOMEONE OF THE SAME SEX WOULD STILL BE A SIN.

    • Sharron says:

      God didn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for nothing. It is amazing how gay people overlook the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation that speak against ALL kinds of fleshly lust, and homosexuality is most definitely included in this equation, and not only is it sin but an ABOMINATION!!!!

  8. gcmwatch says:

    James, lust and fornication are wrong period. It doenst matter what type it is.

    For a good idea of how Whosoever interprets scripture read our article here.

  9. Only a repentent sinner trusting on the finished work of Jesus Christ is acceptable to God. None of our works, none of our preconceived ideas on any topic, our knowledge, and so on, can be accepted. Even unrepentent heterosexuals who commit fornication, and think ways to satisfy their whims and fantansies like anyone would do or has done, are in peril of God’s Just Judgement. I mean we are all under that if we do not repent of our wicked deeds that we have ungodly done against Him! I praise God for His Son Jesus Christ who paid the price for me, who is a ‘…such were some of you: but you are washed, you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God’. Yes I used to be a homosexual! I was never ‘gay’ for I was NEVER happy, content and certainly never experienced the Joy that one can have in God!

  10. nan says:

    the only way you will overcome is by repentance and turning from homosexuality. at the judgment you shall see; some already do that God does and will never except men lying with men and women with women sexually, but you will do what you will do anyway. some of us knew this was coming so we don’t worry about the church because God will claim his saints in his time. No amount of arguing is going to change anything . Stephen is right,

  11. William Cox says:

    It’s a slippery slope. Before you know it, GCMW will probably be going after other Christian groups that don’t share other GCMW beliefs. I mean, come out of your closet and be honest: which other Christian groups does GCMW believe are also doomed to Hell because of beliefs that have nothing to do with sexuality? Besides Christian groups, why not list every other religion or philosophy that you believe are leading many to Hell? I’m sure there are a lot more in that category than in the gay category, so GCMW’s emphasis seems like a waste of resources.

    GCMW: Check our blogging partners (left side column) who cover a wide variety of issues crippling the contemporary church.

  12. Marc Adams says:

    “If you are offended at the assumption that you are Christian, then why does your organization portray a Christian veneer. Is that intentional? Why are only Christian colleges targeted by you and not any Muslim, Jewish or “other”? No evidence of that on your site. Perhaps that is advantageous to you because it is okay to portray Christian schools (ala Soulforce) as “homophobic” or “terrorists” as you state on your site. What are your statistics on your Jewish, Muslim and “other” clients in comparison to those who claim Christianity? You’ve also accepted financial support from Christian organizations, but no Muslim or Jewish. You really haven’t clarified anything but youre welcome to answer the above questions. Before you do, check with Christian Lesbians. They have you listed as a “Christian resource“.”

    UM, there is nothing on HeartStrong’s or my personal websites which have any type of “Christian” veneer. Whatever that is supposed to mean.

    Since day one back in 1996 when we first started doing outreach to students in religious schools, it has included EVERY religious school. Not sure where you get the idea that only christian schools persecute GLBT students or that HS only reaches out to christian school students. That statement is no where to be found on HeartStrong’s websites.

    With great care, the founders of HS have always included all religious schools by using the term religious educational institutions. This obviously means every religious educational institution. As is stated many times, regardless of the theology of the religious school, the oppression is always the same.

    HS has nothing to do with Soulforce which is a christian organization.

    The only christian church that has every donated to HeartStrong is Holy Trinity Community Church in Nashville TN. Other than that there are no other christian organizations which give money to HeartStrong. And, HS will accept funding from any organization or individual which is willing to donate. It doesn’t matter what their religious views are or arent.

    As far as groups providing links to HS or any of our other site, it is not an issue for us who they are or what they represent. Religious folks are generally the ones with hangups about where their money comes from and what websites like to them.

    Your listing about HS is pure assumption that HS or myself are a Christian or Christian organization. It’s simply not true and there is no information on our sites which state differently.

  13. Frank says:

    Also,
    They say God made them gay and God makes everything good.
    God made Adam good but all need to repent after Adam’s sin.
    When we repent and follow Christ the Lord renews us and that goodness is in him by his Spirit! All are born in sin and all have sinned! All need to repent and believe the gospel.
    That gospel said John the baptist came preaching repent.
    Jesus came preaching repent!
    If God made people gay they would not need to repent and therefore saying that God made someone gay is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.
    If Christians are smart they will pray without ceasing and repent daily!
    Christians have Christ revealed by the Father. In Christ we see God as his the express image of his Father. The Lord sent back his Spirit to bear witness of the Son and to convict us of our sins to please him.
    Calling the conviction of the Holy Ghost the devil is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost and in that there is no forgiveness!

    Frank

  14. Frank says:

    Also,
    The scriptures are clear that Jesus himself said “I am not alone for I always do them things which please my Father.”
    If God hated sin enough to destroy the world and hated blasphemy and abominations enough to destroy cities and cast people out the Son will not allow it!
    There is no way that the Lord is going to overlook that which his Father hates! He will please his Father in all things.
    He was merciful but he also drove the moneychangers out of the tabernacle.
    Upon his ascention he was given all power and glory and honour!
    He has all mercy and he has all wrath!
    He will deliver those whom please his Father and destroy those whom anger him!
    The deceiver and the deceived will find no place in heaven. Those whom have added to his word or twisted it to justify sin and abomination will end up in hell.

    Frank

  15. Frank says:

    As some study to justify sin the thoughts and intents of their hearts are manifested at the throne of God and it is revealed not to see his glory and be obedient unto his word but to look for a “loophole” to justify sin and abomination!
    They say that those who call out sin use the word “out of context” when it is brought forth by the Spirit!
    But:
    Look it up in a concordance.
    Does temple mean “body of Christ?”
    That’s what he says it means!
    Does seed mean “word of God” in a concordance?
    That’s what Jesus said it means!
    Was he using the word out of context?
    Therefore:
    If Deuteronomy 23:13 tells us that the children of Israel were “ease themselves” outside the camp and bury that which came out of them so there would be no unclean thing in the camp where the Lord walked that’s just what it means.
    When the word says “seed of copulation, grain of mustardseed and seed of Abraham” is that which brings forth life in plants, animals and humans that is what it means!
    The seed of Abraham being Christ, the word who gives Life unto all who call upon his name and do as he commands. One of which things is to repent!
    Going deeper into the meaning we can see that to place the “seed” or “word, Spirit or that which brings forth life” into an unclean place is an abomination in the sight of God!
    And that is using the word with the meanings that the Lord himself shewed through various scriptures!
    So with all of the witnesses above it is a multitude of counsellers in which the word says there is safety! Safety from the wrath of God!

    Frank

  16. Frank says:

    The Lord said that the way was straight and there be few that find it.
    The word says that though the children of Israel be as the stars for multitude, yet a remnant shallbe saved.
    In the days of Noah only 1 family was saved!
    In the days of Lot only one family was saved and the wife even looked back and was destroyed. (The church, the Lord’s wife appears to be looking back as she trusts psychologists rather than repent and be saved)
    They all want this so-called unity where all sin is overlooked and the scriptures shew us that it is the beast’s kingdom of darkness that comes together to take the mark and buy and sell. That remnant that has the testimony of Jesus is cast out and cannot buy nor sell.
    But then again, we see Mystery, Babylon, the fallen church accepting and affirming everything today. Paul spake of the bride of Christ, the church. He said this is a great Mystery! And, Babylon is falling to the teachings of men that attempt to use a carnal mind and man’s degree to teach spiritual things. Sadly, they attempt to find answers where they should go back to men who have spiritual discernment. After all, the word is spiritually discerned whether they like it or not.
    If you try to warn them of the upcoming judgment in which multitudes of rebellious and deceived people shall lose their souls it’s called hatred rather than love.
    True love is to warn people that they are heading for hell because they are listening to those who speak by spirit of err rather than the Holy Ghost!
    Many probably wouldn’t be suicidal if they would repent and follow the word of God. The word is clear that a man’s spirit will sustain his infirmity and that the Lord will keep them in perfect peace who’s mind is stayed upon him!
    The word shows us that he sent his word to heal the people in Psalms.
    Before the Lord healed anyone he got the unbelievers out of the room. Like the young girl of 12, before we are quickened and raised from the dead (those spiritually dead in this life) the lord is going to cast out those who do not believe.
    Many honour him with their lips but their heart is far from him!
    But, when you try to warn them it is called hate instead of the love which it really is.
    They’ll continue to follow the men who love the praise of man more than the praise of God and feed their deceived souls with a word that will lead them to hell.
    Sad! Man’s wisdom has made him a fool and is damning those who should turn to the Lord.
    They used to teach “tough-love” and it scared some kids straight but when done in spiritual matters it is called hate!
    Go ahead, stand on the far side of the bridge and “love” them enough to “draw” them to you even though the bridge is out!
    Just “love” them enough to damn their souls and tell them that man trying to warn them hates them!

    Frank

  17. Justsid says:

    Im a member of Gay Christian Network. I think if you really read our website you could never hold onto your postion. You refuse to accept the idea that a Gay person is in repentance to Christ. However, your idea fly’s directly in the face of what is claimed in the new testament. Yeshua (Jesus) said what the criteria for redemption was. To believe on His sacrifice, trust in his ressurection, follow the Golden Rules. He is our redemption and the only redemption. Nothing we personally do will save us. That is a idea from the saducee’s and Pharisee’s.

    Read John 4, and you will see a story about Jesus meeting a woman at a well. He asked her to draw water from that well. She protested. Eventually, Jesus says for her to get her husband. She retorts, “I have no husband.” He says, “You are correct in saying this for you havent had one husband but 5 and the one you are with is not your husband now.” He preached to this Sumarian and saved them. I challenge you, read it and see where he told this woman to leave her adulterous relationship. You wont see that because He never told her to leave her husband. Her belief in the Messiah is what saved her.

    You call us false prophets….I say your theology is on the shakier ground. Our Theology rellies on the grace of God for salvation. Yours rellies on the Law. Since your flesh, you will always fall short of the law. However, like the Saducee’s and Pharisee’s you become the greater hypocrit to condemn someone when you yourself will never gain perfection. We, the Gay Christian’s, are perfected strictly through Christ. The law will not save you. The law shows your inperfection. The law also shows you are no greater than any Gay person. It only took your first sin for you to be just as filthy as aanyone else. We are all on equally footing in Christ. We are saved by Grace (a gift given, undeserved) that none may boast.

    I could give you tons of verses. That would be a entire article all by itself. I will pray for all of you and please remember to pray for me. Also, instead of just talking about GCN perhaps it would be prudent to check what we are saying on GCN verses the bible. Oh and just so you know GCN has a 8000+ membership base. You call it just a social networking site. I say its much more than that. It has numerous biblical scholars that I would pit against most Rabbinical scholars. You study your bible however, we had to go back to the manuscripts. Truth is, no matter what your shown, you will hang on to your closed theology. You heart has been turned to stone like Pharoah. You are closed to the truth like the Saducee’s and Pharisee’s.
    Christ said, “I desire mercy above sacrifice.”

    Sincerely,
    Sid

  18. Frank says:

    Sadly, the gays cannot see who it is that really cares. If they could they wouldn’t reject those who use the whole word as Jesus said.
    They would realize that as we all head towards the judgment seat of Christ some are trying to help them in a way that matters and not just with kind words of feigned love.
    There is nothing worse than being deceived and finding out when it is too late that the one you rejected was the one that really cared and was the one that was really sent even though his or her advice was hard to swallow.
    And, we will be at the judgment seat of Christ sooner than many think.

    Frank

  19. Frank says:

    They say they are gay Christians and yet there is no such thing as a gaychristian. Those who followed Christ were willing to repent and be renewed by the Holy Ghost.
    The word says that because they have no changes there is no fear of God in them. It also says if they speak not according to this word there is no life in them.
    The word of God shows us that even the devils said that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. That doesn’t mean they are saved.
    Some have gotten so grace oriented that they will declare his mercy not even admitting the Lord desires a just weight and an equal balance. Faith must be equaled with good works.
    Teaching people contrary to the very law that pleased God is not a good work. The word says the wicked lead in a way which is not good. Since only God is good the wicked lead in a way which is not of God.
    They tend to always come back to grace.
    There are warnings as well about those who would turn the grace of God into lasciviousness. Just lusting after whatever they wish and claiming the grace of God every step of the way.
    Yes, Jesus was merciful but also said “go and sin no more lest a worst thing come upon thee.”
    There is also the parable about the swept house and the unclean spirit of man that returns with seven spirits worse and the person becomes worse than he was.
    They refuse to admit that a person can come into the household of faith and be cleansed and then when the carnal words of man do not fill the house with the Spirit of God the unclean spirit of man will return. They become far worse than ever.
    That can be seen as some have been so foolish as to teach that the Lord’s mercy will extend to the point where the devil is saved.
    The word also says that the wicked seek out sin. That they make a diligent search to justify their sin. They should be seeking to be healed and delivered instead.
    There were many widows but yet only 1 widow in Scerepta was saved and there were many lepers and yet only 1 was healed. The word says that God is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Not those who diligently seek to justify their abomination through grace while turning a deat ear to diligence and fear of God.
    The word even says the fear of the Lord is his treasure. The Lord even said to fear him that can cast both body and soul into hell. The goody-goody grace teaching not only shows no fear of God but denies his ability to heal as well.
    The same Jesus that died for our sins was beaten mercilessly for our healing. To deny healing and claim God made people gay and in no need of healing or deliverance is to make the suffering of his stripes in vain.
    Shaky ground, I think not.
    Those of us that know him in whom we believe are persuaded that he can keep that which we have committed unto him. That keeping of our souls as Peter put it.
    We trust the Lord for our healing and deliverance and aren’t trusting psychologists to tell us we are bipolar and such.
    We are the ones who find ourselves banned from gay websites as those on shaky sand are afraid that one their suicidal friends may just take their life rather than learn to trust in the Lord the way that all of the disciples and apistles did.
    We are the ones that do not rely on man’s theology but rather in the teaching of the Holy Ghost and when we bring forth things that cannot be disputed those on shaky sand either ban us or go back into the teachings of grace as their only stability.
    We are the ones that realize that the Lord is no liar and when he said man must live by every word of God he meant just that.
    We are the ones that realize that the grace of God in Christ Jesus is for when we fall shaort after making a diligent attempt to please God from both testaments. A theology taught by the Holy Ghost and shunned by those on shaky sand.
    Shaky sand, I think not.
    We are the ones that pray that maybe one day one or two of the gay community just might have their eyes opened unto the spiritual things of God and repent and be delivered from a spirit of perversion.
    We are the ones that hope that anyone that is honestly seeking God avoids gay websites as the only doctrine they will see there will lead them to hell as those on shaky ground have bannned all opposition under the guise of “love and grace.”

    Frank

  20. Frank says:

    Sadly, I have seen the teachings of the great biblical scholars and am not impressed with man’s mind when it comes to the word of God.
    The scribes and pharisees knew the word of God better than any Gentile. Yet, they did not know the Son of God when he stood before them.
    All they could see was the carnal interpretation of the word. Not the spiritual. If they had they would have worshipped Jesus rather than condemn him. But, the scriptures must be fulfilled.
    In like manner today men seek the carnal interpretation of a spiritual word that must be spiritually discerned. In like manner the scriptures must be fulfilled and the Gentiles must recrucify Christ by allowing beliefs to come in such as denying that those saved in the days of Noah and Lot were straight.
    Sadly, they want a word their way and not his way.
    It is a shame that they are offended when they are confronted with sound doctrine that acknwledges the fear of God to compliment the love of God.
    It is sad that they deny the need to be obedient unto every word of God and use an out of balance grace doctrine even though the scriptures say that divers weights and balances are an abomination unto the Lord.
    That means it is sad that they deny the abomination of homosexuality by teaching the abomination of a grace only doctrine which is out of balance.
    It is sad that they say they will pray for us while calling us breeders and belittling us behind our backs.
    It is sad that they say they they must reach out to the hetrosexual community and should any actually join that try to dispute them they will ban them.
    And, of course it is sad when someone will dispute them in an attempt to bring the true love of rebuke and the post or thread will quickly disappear or members will quickly post more threads to get the given article off the front page while many may never see the things the Lord may have had in store to turn them back to the faith so shunned by GCN.
    And most sad is the fact that they will use a feigned love to do it all.
    I personally do not hate the gay community but they shew by the things that I have testified of that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways and a kingdom divided shall fall at the last day when the last trump sounds.
    Sadly, they say they will pray for us but in reality they will hate us.
    Anyone that has lurked there should know that.
    The word of God says the serpent was more subtle than any other creature.
    Eat; Surely you won’t die.
    God made us gay and loves us regardless. Believe it; Surely you won’t die. And we’ll be praying for you.

    Sincerely,

    Frank

  21. Frank says:

    I guess this wouldn’t be complete without answering about us using the laws and prophets and about the so-called hatred here.
    Acts 24:14 -16
    14 But THIS I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing ALL THINGS which are written in the LAW AND THE PROPHETS:
    15 And have hope towards God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a ressurrection of the dead, both the just and the unjust.
    16 And HEREIN do I exercize myself, to have a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.

    The apostle Paul used the laws and prophets to preach Christ and to guide the churches. He believed the very things we are accused of believing and having it said they give us a foundation on shaking ground.
    Really sad indeed.
    As for the hatred here;
    Some people just cannot discern the Spirit of God from the devil and sadly they say the ones sent by God are messengers of hate.
    The truth is that they cannot discern true hate.
    The serpent was subtle as in hate he deceived the woman. Today he does the same. He is so subtle as he uses loving words to send those he hates straight o hell. And like Eve, she who should be the bride of Christ is deceived and shall find out at the judgment seat that there is no place for the deceived or the deceiver.
    What she thought was hate could have saved her and whome she said spoke hate spoke love. Sadly, whom she said hated her was the one that loved her enough to attempt to rebuke and guide her even when she hated them as a reward of their efforts.
    Paul said the more I love thee the less I be loved and in a sense that is how it goes when those who have the love of God attempt to draw one out of the err of their beliefs.
    They come against great odds to bring them the message of repentence and obedience just to be hated.

    Frank

  22. Justsid says:

    It says, “you will know them by thier fruits.” All one has to do is look at those who persecute and you will see the fruits of thier labor. Are they leading people to Christ or casting them away? “It would be better to tie a mill stone around your kneck and cast yourself into the ocean than face His wrath on that great and terrible day.” The Church at large is the ones casting people away. Christ said, “do as they say but not as they do.” The Law is our guide, “but wherein the flesh is weak in the law so I have become strong.”

    Christ always knew we would fail in the law. To claim you have greater obedience to the law is a direct claim against what is written in the very Word you profess. “A house divided against itself will fall.” If you contradict what the word says concerning the fallibility of man. Then you have divided yourself from the inspired word of God. The Holy spirit was sent as our comforter and guide. No where in the bible do you see that you become perfected as soon as you recieve the Holy Spirit. We are a work in progress…..all of mankind who believe. Jesus himself referred to the eunuchs. Who do you think He was referring to? He did not have distane in His heart about them. Instead He blessed us and promised us blessings from God.

    The Gay Christians are real! They were in the times of Christ and are still today. The deciever has had hold on the churches false doctrine concerning this for a couple centuries now. It will not release this strangle hold easily. It has gained to many lost souls from this false teaching of the Church as they cast them away. To many know the truth of it now….the deciever will lose it’s strangle hold on the outcast children of God. The gay Christian will rise and declare God soveirgn and those weak things of this world God will make strong for His glory!

  23. gcmwatch says:

    Justsid, were you a homosexual before you claimed to be a Christian?

  24. Frank says:

    They claim that they are outcasts that shall arise for His glory! Yet when you read their posts they “left” churches to find “affirming” churches.
    For starters it says that many in the last days shall heap up teachers having itching ears and that many will be turned over unto a reprobate mind and not able to discern good from evil.
    In Psalms it is written that the wicked flee when no man persueth. It also says the way of the wicked is as darkness.
    The Lord himself said “This is the condemnation that light has come into darkness and darkness comprehended it not.” He said men would love darkness rather than light and they would not come unto the light as it would shew their deeds were evil.
    I have seen as well that when too many types and shadows are taught about Christ being the husband and head and the church is the bride or woman they flee as they cannot stand this hetrosexual types and shadows.
    As for how they shall arise, the word is clear in that there shall be a great falling away at the end when the spirit of antchrist shall sit in the temple (those human bodies) shewing himself (not God nor his saints) that he is God.
    It says the kingdom of the devil shall grow and that the mouth of hell shal enlarge itself.
    This can be seen as these of a divided kingdom (having a form of godliness and denying the power thereof and those who honour him with their lips while their heart is far from him) say that the gospel that has been taught for around 2000 years is no longer good enough.
    The word says return unto the old paths wherein is the good way. Since God is good they need to lay aside these vanities taught today about “affirming” churches and return unto the old paths wherein is the way of God. Loosley translated, repent!
    Gays cast away? I think not. They run away from straight churches that preach the truth even when it is only types and shadows of a hetrosexual union with Christ and the church. The preacher doesn’t even have to say anything against homosexuality many times.
    Homophobic? Once again some do not fear gays. Gays run from their sermons and posts.
    Homophobia is but a lame term anyway that is new and it should be “Truthaphobic” the way the gays run from the truth; or the original gospel that is brought forth by the Spirit and makes no provisionn for accepting abomination.
    Hetrosexuals being more abiding of the law?
    We never said that. We just stated what the scriptures say.
    As for homosexuals in the time of Christ, evil has been destroyed since the beginning as well.
    I have yet to see anyone answer my posts about the things the Lord has shewed me that cannot be disputed. I have seen them ducked, siddestepped and called crazy but then again the spiritual things of God are foolishness unto a carnal mind.
    From my study the ones that I can see that may be scripturally sound and may just make more of a spiritual sacrifice than straight people are the side “B” gays.
    At least they may be willing to hate their life in this world and deny themselves without transgressing the laws of abomination. At least they may be willing to live as an eunuch for Christ.
    That is, if my understanding is correct.
    Frank

  25. Justsid says:

    Yes, I have been homosexual as long as I can remember. My first crush was on a young man. My first love was a male. I was raised pentecostal. Just so there is no missunderstanding GCM. I dont claim to be a Christian…..I am. Christ hung on a cross for me just as surely as he hung on a cross for you. I believe that and follow His teachings. That makes me Christian and written in The Lambs Book of Life. Yes, the church most certainly asked me to leave when they knew. I prayed for change for many years. I followed all the so called reparative therapies and they dont work. Thats because God created us to be who we are. Our sexuallity is not the issue with God. Our belief in devotion to Christ is.

    Frank, I say the light is already being shined on darkness and you dont see it. You say a great falling away. Well perhaps your perception is skewed. I say the fact that the Church is abiding casting Gods children away already shows the Churches falling away. You say we are leaving our churches. I say you are wrong. Many of us wished to remain in our churches regardless of thier false teaching in this matter. We believed them and tried to follow but because we could not be perfect we were asked to leave. Our very existance challenges your ideology. 8000+ group of gay Christian’s who follow Christ, that must be so hard for you to understand. However, even Job followed God even when put to trial. Light is being shined in the darkness….but you refuse to see it.

    I dont dodge or duck any scripture. It is the rock I live my life from. Im not so fool hardy to believe people like you Frank, have all the answers. Im niether so fool hardy to believe I have all the answers. In the book of Mark you will see a young man clad in linen and naked otherwise who runs to Jesus. This is just as the gaurds are taking Jesus for his trials. The Guards sieze hold of this young man and tear the linen from him and he runs away naked. My question to you is who is that young man? Look in Mark, its a small verse thats seems very out of place. Then type into your google search for Mark and learn who he was.
    The centurion who came to Jesus for his beloved servant. Look up the greek wording used. Johnathan and David, read the story again. Pay close attention to the words used when they embrace in a kiss. The hebrews didnt even have a word for Homosexuals. Why becuase it wasnt a issue. The closest that was used was a word of description. Malokoi=the soft ones
    No where in the bible does it have the condemnation the church gives to it today. you say the levitical laws are authority in this matter. Then why did Moses allow a decree of divorcement yet Christ said it was not always so but this was done because of the hardness of your hearts. If the animal kingdom exhibits homosexuality, what makes you think this was not always so. I never read in the bible that the animals where cursed. It was Man and the Ground.

    I leave you with this as well. It is written in the Last days that marriage will be denied to my Children. I dont see anyone denying heterosexual marriage.

    No matter what I say…or how scriptural it is. You will never see it because your heart has turned to stone. You are as barreen of life giving water as the rocks. I still have faith that God will open your eyes. Just as Moses struck a stone and got water. I have faith God will remove that stony heart and replace it with a real one. That is my hope and prayer for the Church and her followers.

  26. gcmwatch says:

    Yes, I have been homosexual as long as I can remember

    Justsid, you have been in sin a long time. It must feel comfortable, natural and normal by now.

  27. Frank says:

    Sid,
    The word of God is clear in that though the children of Israel be as the sands of the sea, yet a remnant shall be saved. This bears witness to the prophets saying that the saved of Israel shall be so few that a child may number them.
    Also, there was only one family saved in Noah’s day and the same in Lot’s day.
    All of these bear witness that as the mouth of hell is enlarged and the kingdome of the beast grows larger there shall be a great falling away as the spirit of antichrist dwells in the temples, or bodies of those who say they are Christ and are not.
    As for being driven off, I am afraid you are in err.
    I have seen the posts at GCN and have seen that most say they left searching for affirming churches and I have indeed noticed as well that when too many types and shadows are presented as the entire word of God bearing witness unto the Lord being the husband and the church being the bride that many run from the hetrosexual union presented with no one ebing driven off.
    This bears witness that when the light of the gospel of the husband and head of the church is brought forth rather than be the submissive bride or woman in this hetrosexual union these who are as Vashti and rebellious run from that light of life to their safe haven of darkness.
    This bears witness to what I say in which they flees when no man persueth. Sadly, right to their safe haven of darkness.
    As for me having all of the answers, I never said that.
    I do however trust in the Holy Ghost and I have presented scripture that has yet to be disputed with sound scripture.
    The Spirit of God is wiser than man and cannot be effectively countered. It will always bring forth some form of truth that cannot be disputed with scripture unless the scriptures are just flat out ignored which is a case of willing disobedience.
    The King James Bible and the Holy Ghost are the only things I rely on and they are enough.
    I do not use any computer information as the Holy Ghost always honours the words of the King James Bible and reveals what we need to know without any outside help.
    Spiritually speaking, I have born witness to the type and shadow of the young man in Mark right at GCN.
    A young man, or babe in Christ comes to GCN wondering about his or her feeling about being gay.
    He is clothed with the righteousness of Christ, or white sheet or covering of the Spirit.
    He comes to where Christ is bound.
    A place where all opposition to blasphemy is cast out and banned.
    That “guard” that is arresting Christ and taking him to be re-crucified grabs the garment of that young man.
    He mistakes the conviction of the Holy Ghost for the devil and removes the very righteousness of that man by instructing him contrary to the very law of God and the man flees though no man persueth.
    Sadly, his name may be blotted out of the Book Of Life and he may never know it just as Samson knew not the Lord had left him.
    In fleeing naked he no longer has the covering of the Spirit of God and returns back to his former state. And if that unclean spirit of man returns it brings back seven more and that young man is in worse shape than before he came to Christ. All because he inquired in the wrong place.
    The portion about David is about being of one Spirit. A love in which the Son of David tells his servants the truth.
    It is written that “he that gives a right answer kisses his lips” and in the Song Of Solomon it speaks about the Lord’s lips and obtaining being sweet.
    We as Christians are to be of one Spirit with all speaking the same thing. As written, one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
    The word says that he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit.
    Just as a man shall leave his father and his mother and cleave unto his wife and these shall be one flesh.
    The Lord left Father (God) and mother (Jerusalem which is above) and cleaved unto his wife to be one flesh. (Christ in our hearts by faith, and as in the prophets: a woman shall compass a man- one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus)
    That of course is another type and shadow that is hetrosexual in nature even though spiritual. It also is a point where when taken farther makes many gay people call you a gay basher and hate you, regardless of what they say.
    Now as for the law, the Lord said himself “Any man that is instructed in the kingdom of God is as a scribe that bringeth out of his house things both old and new which bears witness unto Jesus saying that man shall live by every word of God.
    Above I listed more references to this and the word of God says that in the multitude of counsellors there is safety. That safety is of course from the wrath of God that is laid up in heaven awating the appointed time. The time when the Lord shall indeed come at the seventh, or last trump.
    The issue of marriage being denied can be seen in the spiritual sense of the heresy today in which many shall not make it past the judgment seat of Christ.
    By abiding in these churches that no longer deliver the rightly divided word of truth they are not in a unity, or joined unto the Lord to be of one Spirit. They are therefore not his betrothed and shall not be his bride at the wedding feast of the Lamb.
    In this a hetrosexual marriage is being denied.
    Sid, if my heart was turned to stone I wouldn’t spend my time praying that the gay people would repent and believe in healing or at least remain celibate until the Lord’s return.
    If my heart was of stone I would just do as so many others and say “O’ the hell with Sid and them gays. They’re going to hell anyway.” I wouldn’t stay up until all hours of the night praying that the Lord would give the rightly divided word of truth that either you or some lurker might be able to repent and obtain mercy from he who is seated at the right hand of God.
    You can say and think what you wish but the bottom line is that I am one who cares.
    Believe it or not.
    Frank

  28. Justsid says:

    Then you must say that about all gay people GCM. I cant imagine Ephah (Peter) saying that about the gentiles nor Christ saying it is useless to minister to them because they were always gentile.

    Your right though. It does feel comfortable, natural, and normal, to me. I never considered it abnormal till someone told me it was. Now I have to consider a question God asked Adam. “Who told you you were naked?”

  29. Justsid says:

    My homosexuality didn’t take away the innocence God had me in…..the serpent who says, “eat this fruit and you will become as God” did.

  30. Justsid says:

    Oh Im sorry, I just realized I didnt explain threads dissappearing on GCN Frank. They dont get deleted. If they get to heated they are moved to a sensitive subject area the general populous cant see. This is to insure that we dont offend anyone who reads from the Churches. They arent moved for our benefit but for all those who arent members and reading those we call lurker’s like GCM. We arent trying to attack the Church but give a place for those who the Church dont want in thier congregations. Therefore, its a policy of GCN to not leave anything that shows the church in a less than favorable light. As far as we are conscerned, we are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ and not everyone is at the same point in thier walk with Christ. So we consider it better than offending the Church to move those to a area they can be discussed without hurting anyones feelings. I hope that explains why those threads dissappear. Some get to heated and get locked and placed in Sensitive Subjects but most are hammered out there as a rule of thumb.

  31. Frank says:

    Sid,

    Before I call it a night and go to bed there is one point I do want to make.
    I got banned from GCN for poting the same thigs I did her in a private form.
    You had to be a member to see it and to me that wasn’t right at all.
    Probably because I got tired of Alma and said something.
    Justin doesn’t like anyone agreeing with her.
    The way he let her slam me and then ban me for saying something back did nothing but prove to me that he only allows pro-gay people on GCN and that is one sided and not fair to babes in Christ seeking the truth about homosexuality by conviction of the Holy Ghost.
    Since it’s a private place, he should allow both sides and allow the babe in Christ to choose.
    I don’t buy his reasoning about some being suicidal.
    I’ve been there myself and the Lord saved me.
    That’s part of trusting him as all did in the early church.
    Anyway, take care,
    Frank

  32. Frank says:

    By the way that is disagreeing with her. Not agreeing.
    Frank

  33. gcmwatch says:

    Frank, honestly justsid’s gay christian book report templates are awfully boring. I can barely read the first three words without yawning. Maybe they have someone else over there who is not so immature and verbose as to drone on and on and on while saying nothing of substance.

    Based on his own snarky comments, I wont allow anymore K-5 silliness to be posted here. Had you not had a “conversation” with him, I would completely erase his every word so as to reclaim valuable, unused white space.

  34. Frank says:

    gcmwatch,
    I don’t mind as I try to be kind answer what they throw at me. I have been banned by quite a few “Christian” sites that claim to have “unconditional” love. I never leave but get banned which bears witness to the wicked fleeing when no man persueth when the are the ones that put a stop to me being there.
    They do think that seminary and study alone gives all of the answers but few can handle it when the Holy Ghost brings out something they cannot counter.
    For instance they have haggled the sins of Noah’s day, Lot’s day and such for years but there is one thing no man can dispute.
    Noah is chown by scripture to be straight.
    So is Lot, the widow of Scerepta and Naaman the leper.
    Therefore all who were saved (as in the Lord returning for his bride) were straoght. That cannot be disputed.
    Those who were healed (as in given eternal life in Christ, not just the natural) were straight.
    I do believe that homosexuals can repent and be healed of a spirit of perversion just as any straight person can repent. They too can have eternal life but to be healed of those feelings come in the Lord’s time and not ours.
    There were some that were sick and afflicted for 30-40 years or so before the Lord healed them.
    Today they think that if God doesn’t heal them with the first year or two of prayer that it’s his will for them to be gay and the unclean spirit of man and comes back with these spirits of perversion and they
    re worse off than before. Rather than study to behold his glory they study to prove homosexuality is approved and blessed of God and that is blasphemy..
    My Lord! Not all were healed at the pool of Bethesda! Those who jumped in ahead of the man touched were self centered and may have been healed but the one the Lord touched had the blessing of being healed directly by the Lord and not by way of an angel troubling the water.
    Anyway, let them believe what they want. There are some things such as the saved being straight that cannot be overlooked.
    Neither can they dispute the deeper spiritual things of active homosexuals bearing witness of how little they think of the Lord, his word and the Spirit when we use the words of Jesus and what he said and place the “seed” in an “unclean place” so to speak to keep it clean.
    Those scriptures of the Lord’s definitions of his word combined with Deuteronomy 23:13 shew exactly what is manifested at the throne of God with such actions.
    The Lord said “ye shall be witnesses unto me” and they shame him before his Father, the cheribims, seraphims, the holy angels and the souls of just men made perfect when they perform such blasphemous acts and call them blessed by God!
    Man’s mind at it’s finest when the lack of spiritual discernment can’t tell the difference between the Holy Ghost and the spirit of antichrist!
    Oh well, I’ve gone on long enough.
    Thank you once again.
    Frank

  35. Frank says:

    gcmwatch,
    As for what I said above about my scriptural references being ignored, sidestepped and such there was a reply that they aren’t. Yet, the things I just posted above weren’t touched.
    Sidestepped and ignored once again.
    Some things just cannot be disputed when revealed and brought forth by the Holy Ghost.
    The typical other response is that I am twisting scripture or crazy.
    The natural mind of man cannot discern the things of God and the deep spiritual things of God cannot be revealed by the natural mind just as Paul said!
    It’s mere foolishness to them.
    Thank’s again.
    Frank

  36. Kyle says:

    JustSid,

    What did Jesus die for? Was it for the remission of sin? Was it so you and I as a sinner could be saved by his sovereign grace? Was it so we could repent of our sins? If so what sins did he die for and what ones didn’t he die for? What sins should one repent of and which should we not?
    You claim an obscure verse in scripture as an example of homosexuals. That verse is hardly substantiated, however both the New and Old Testament clearly claim that homosexuality is a sin JUST LIKE OTHER SINS.
    Also, Frank rightly shows the spiritual marriage in both the masculine and feminine, male and female, bride and groom.
    Lastly, the physical body by design is conducive to heterosexual sex. The perfect harmony of the opposite sex parts cannot be denied. God clearly sets the boundaries from the beginning in Genesis when we as males are to cleave to our wife and become one flesh. The household has the hierarchy of the male being the head of the household and the bread winner and the woman being the housewife taking care of the children and the home. If that is sexist to you then go complain to God or N.O.W. Finally God wanted us to be married man and woman with the intentions of creating a family. Homosexual defenders use the weak argument of couples not being able to have children as a justification of homosexual marriage. The reason this is weak is because the couple when they find out are usually distraught, saddened, and shocked by the idea that they can’t have children. Obviously homosexuals wouldn’t feel the same way because they understand what they are doing in no way is conducive to producing children.

    Kyle

  37. efenz says:

    Maybe it’s just me, unrepentant sinner that I am, but I can only imagine Jesus looking at this diatribe and just shaking his head at the theological pissing contest that’s going on here.

    Frank, do you really think that what you are saying is said in love? I stopped reading verbatim after the first few entries but got the gist that you believe that your purpose on this earth is to “lovingly” (sorry, is that too gay a word?) persecute a group of people who, when separated from the incessant sexual acts that you seem to believe homosexuals are either engaged in or thinking about constantly, are largely an extraordinary group of people, most of whom you will never know because you don’t care to.

    I could let myself get upset at the attacks on those of us who consider ourselves Christians who don’t fit the usual mold, but instead I am just bewildered that you people spend so much time and energy on this when there is so much good to be done in the world.

    Frank, go outside and get some of God’s beautiful air and sunshine. I think your spirit is wilting behind your terminal.

  38. Rogers says:

    It’s just like speaking to a wall. It really is. I am so tired of Hearing the David and Jonathon or the Ruth and Naomi stories as an excuse to justify homosexuality. “Pay attention to the Greek meaning” they say. Silly!!! The problem is when people are in sin they abide in darkness obviously not able to see. I am not going to list scriptures because they would be ignored. So simply stated Jesus is the Light of the world. Those that abide in Him have that light, those that serve sin abide in darkness. Hence why I feel it i s just difficult to speak to people like this.

  39. Rose says:

    David and Jonathan were not homosexuals. That’s a lie.

    Here’s a quote from a book I once read that I think can help clear this up (Christian Ethics, Norman L. Geisler, pg. 265):
    “There is no indication in Scripture that David and Jonathan were homosexual. On the contrary, there is strong evidence that they were not. David’s attraction to Bathsheba (2 Sam. 11) reveals that his sexual orientation was heterosexual, not homosexual. In fact, judging by the number of wives he had, David seemed to have too much heterosexuality! David’s ‘love’ for Jonathan was not sexual (erotic) but a friendship (philic) love. Third, Jonathan did not strip himself of all his clothes in David’s presence, but only of his armor and royal robe (1 Sam. 18:4). The ‘kiss’ was a common cultural greeting for men in that day. Further, it did not occur when Jonathan gave David his attire but two and a half chapters later (20:41). Finally, the emotion they expressed was weeping (v. 41), not orgasm. The text says, ‘They kissed each other and wept together – but David wept the most’ (20:41).”

    And if one were to claim that they were homosexual just because they kissed, then one would also have to call Isaac and his son Jacob gay when they kissed each other (Gen. 27:26), Laban and his nephew Jacob when they kissed (Gen. 29:13), Laban and his sons when they kissed (Gen.31:55), Esau and his brother Jacob when they kissed (Gen. 33:4), Joseph and his brothers (Gen. 45:15), Isaac and his grandsons (Gen. 48:10), Joseph and his father (Gen. 50:1), Aaron and his brother Moses (Ex. 4:27), and the list goes on and on. Notice something about all these instances? They were related. A kiss shared between individuals was a cultural thing, a gesture of extreme friendship. When Jonathan and David kissed, it was a gesture that they felt as brothers. The rest of the results of my search on the word kissed here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=kissed&t=KJV.

    About the Ruth and Naomi thing, that’s ludicrous. Ruth fell in love with and married Boaz! And Naomi had been married and had two sons. Neither were lesbians, and there is nothing in the book of Ruth that implies it.

  40. Marvy says:

    In as much as d concept of homosexuality and d idea of using scriptures is weird nd highly absurd yet i’m not suprised bcos d bible said dat we should belive every spirit but rather try every spirit 2 no weda dey frm God bcos many false prophets are gone out in2 d world. I john 4:1

  41. Marvy says:

    I tink d story of creation says it all God found out dat Adam needed a help mate nd creatd Eve a woman not a man. D bible says “male nd female created He creatd them” nd one of d instructions He gave them is be fruitful nd multiply nd replenish d earth …. Gen 1:27-28, Gen 2:18-25

  42. Marvy says:

    4 brethren u hav been called unto liberty but do not use liberty unto d flesh (in anor translation sexual immorality) but with love serve one anor Grace shouldnot be used as a defenc 4 homosexuality

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